Sealing a consumer unit entry points??

L

leebut

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Hello Guys


I'm going to put my Tin hat on and close the curtains so the Regs police can't arrest me for asking this question again, I can only find old threads pre 18th edition so please advise me if I'm missing something


I've just been watching a guy on Youtube doing a board change who's said that to comply with the 18th edition of the Wiring Regulations you must seal ALL entry holes into a consumer unit regardless of them coming through the bottom, top, sides or rear entry with a suitable intumescent mastic to stop the spread of fire into the fabrication of the building!!!


I personally am NOT aware that anything changed in the 18th Edition to say all entry points have to be fire sealed I've been looking online tonight and can only find write ups from "Wiring Matters"

Stating


Sealing of wiring entries
It is important for the installer to seal all openings into the enclosure or cabinet for cables, conduits, trunking or ducting that remain after the installation of cables - see Figure 6. The intent of the sealing is to ensure that, as far as is reasonably practicable, any fire is contained within the enclosure or cabinet and the escape of flames to the surroundings of the cabinet or enclosure or into conduits trunking or ducting is minimised, as intended by Regulation 421.1.201.
Good workmanship and proper materials must be used, and account must be taken of the manufacturer’s relevant instructions, if any.


Regulation 421.1.201 Does not mention sealing any apertures in a consumer unit with, grommets, glands or sealant and does not mention that the Metal clad board cannot be fitted to a timber backboard. So why is the IET saying we are to be sealing the holes , personally I've been installing all my boards with cables entering from behind and mounting my boards on the existing wooden backboards using a length of stick on trunking as a framework around the consumer unit.


Am I wrong???
 
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leebut said:
Chris was told we are supposed to be sealing all entry points to the CU according The the wiring regulations by the guy running the course but that’s not what’s in the Regulations hence the post
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You are spot on with your opening post. Problem here is the people who tutor the courses and scheme assessors feel the need to gild the lily and hence the blind follow the path.
 
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Reevio said:
Maintaining the fire integrity of a metal consumer unit surely is common sense no?
My jtl guy that did our 18th is also an NICEIC inspector he was very passionate about fire safety to the point we should also be fitting intumescent pads in the back of plastic boxes in stud partitions. A little added protection never hurts anyone and for the sake of £2.89 I will continue to do so.
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A metal consumer unit doesn't have 'fire integrity' to start with, so it's pretty hard to maintain something which doesn't exist! Metal CU's are manufactured from a non combustible material, this is very different from being fire rated.
If something does have a fire rating then it will have been tested and certified as such, and will have the details of this in the manufacturers instructions. If it is fire proof it will have a specific duration which it will remain fireproof for, usually 30,60 or 90 minutes. Nothing remains fireproof forever, nor will it remain fire proof if exposed to a high enough temperature.

Intumescent pads are required only when the back boxes are fitted in a wall which forms a fire barrier. You can generally tell the difference because it will be specified on the architects drawings or usually because it's a double thickness of 15mm plasterboard.
 
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Midwest said:
A larger distribution board in a commercial or industrial setting, might need different considerations; a simple domestic CU does not need all these fire retardant measures.
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I never once said domestic Cu's do require it, I said I chose to do so. It maybe completely unnecessary, useless, pointless or what ever else people's opinions might be, I don't particularly care. I do what I feel is right and what helps me sleep at night. I lost a relative in a house fire many years back so I'm a little more sensitive to fire risk than maybe most.

The regs are there as a guide for at the very least the minimum requirements to make an install safe. If an installer chooses to do something that they feel improves the safety/integrity of an install and it does not violate the standards set, then that's their prerogative.

Some folk might change their view if they got their fingers burnt (excuse the pun):)
 
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Intoelectrics said:
I never once said domestic Cu's do require it, I said I chose to do so. It maybe completely unnecessary, useless, pointless or what ever else people's opinions might be, I don't particularly care. I do what I feel is right and what helps me sleep at night. I lost a relative in a house fire many years back so I'm a little more sensitive to fire risk than maybe most.

The regs are there as a guide for at the very least the minimum requirements to make an install safe. If an installer chooses to do something that they feel improves the safety/integrity of an install and it does not violate the standards set, then that's their prerogative.

Some folk might change their view if they got their fingers burnt (excuse the pun):)
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I'm sorry you've lost a loved one due to a fire, condolences.

But as has been already said, some are interpreting this now old'ish regulation, with their own take on it. They are not the only ones, some manufacturers are doing it as well.

A CU is not a fire hazard, when installed properly, it will not spontaneously combust. All this reg has done, is remove a source of fuel from a potential fire. That was what was conceived when this reg was made, but now it has be conceived by some to be a containment of a potential fire. Ridiculous really, with an open aperture for devices & insecure lid.
 
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Intoelectrics said:
I lost a relative in a house fire many years back so I'm a little more sensitive to fire risk than maybe most.

The regs are there as a guide for at the very least the minimum requirements to make an install safe. If an installer chooses to do something that they feel improves the safety/integrity of an install and it does not violate the standards set, then that's their prerogative.

Some folk might change their view if they got their fingers burnt (excuse the pun):)
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Was this fire started by an electrical fault?

The point is that while the installer may feel like they are going above and beyond the requirements and making it safer than the minimum standards they are likely achieving absolutely nothing other than wasting time and materials. Also they often make the issue worse by misrepresenting their efforts as a requirement or a safety improvement they are neither.

This leads to problems down the line as people have an annoying habit of believing hearsay and gossip over things written in black and white in the regulations. Just look at the number rof things which get picked up on EICRs which are non-issues.
 
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davesparks said:
Was this fire started by an electrical fault?

The point is that while the installer may feel like they are going above and beyond the requirements and making it safer than the minimum standards they are likely achieving absolutely nothing other than wasting time and materials. Also they often make the issue worse by misrepresenting their efforts as a requirement or a safety improvement they are neither.

This leads to problems down the line as people have an annoying habit of believing hearsay and gossip over things written in black and white in the regulations. Just look at the number rof things which get picked up on EICRs which are non-issues.
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Agreed. And who pays for all this extra unnecessary work - the customer I guess.
 
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richy3333 said:
Body swerve and cop out eh?! I see no reason that you can’t put your response on here for the forum members to read?

I did try calling but after 437 guesses at your number I had to give up :( However I’m not really that keen on talking to sassanachs ;)
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No I will answer in due course that’s not a problem just wanted to talk to you personally as your comment was aimed personally at me and not the issue of fire sealing a consumer unit.
 
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DPG said:
Can't really see the need for personal phone calls to be honest.
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@DPG Think he wants a date o_O That or some proper training :)

Cant see why he can't answer the questions.

He called us all a bunch of old women, thats personal comment on everyone. Perhaps every member of the forum should ring him
 
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davesparks said:
Was this fire started by an electrical fault?

The point is that while the installer may feel like they are going above and beyond the requirements and making it safer than the minimum standards they are likely achieving absolutely nothing other than wasting time and materials. Also they often make the issue worse by misrepresenting their efforts as a requirement or a safety improvement they are neither.

This leads to problems down the line as people have an annoying habit of believing hearsay and gossip over things written in black and white in the regulations. Just look at the number rof things which get picked up on EICRs which are non-issues.
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The fire in the control board was caused by a poor connection. The fire at my Aunt's was caused by a faulty appliance.

I don't disagree with you! there is nothing worse than someone stating something is a requirement when this is not so.

I do what I do for my own peace of mind, whether its a waste of time or not does not concern me because if it helps me sleep at night then its worth the effort.
For example my partner goes around the house and switches all the sockets off and unplugs everything that can be. Its probably over kill but it gives her peace of mind.
 
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Reevio said:
Ahhh your in Scotland explains a lot.
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Ahhh your in Englandshire explains a lot.

Touche!

Can't answer some simple questions, has various videos showing non compliant work and doesn't like it when it's pointed out. Undertaking unnecessary work (and no doubt billing the customer). Childish comments vis vis 'bunch of old women' and now a dumb attempt at a veiled racist joke...

I think I have your measure :p

And to save you the bother - yes i wear a skirt, no I don't wear pants, yes I have a beard, yes I'm ginger (collar and cuffs), yes I eat intestines, yes I shag sheep (but not my own as that would be incest). Yes I like a pint of heavy and a dram of the uisge bertha. Yes I fancy the 'Sturge' (even if she looks like wee Jimmy Crankie) and yes I believe in independence.

Over to you now, lets hear your worst Chris...
 
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Intoelectrics said:
The fire in the control board was caused by a poor connection. The fire at my Aunt's was caused by a faulty appliance.

I don't disagree with you! there is nothing worse than someone stating something is a requirement when this is not so.

I do what I do for my own peace of mind, whether its a waste of time or not does not concern me because if it helps me sleep at night then its worth the effort.
For example my partner goes around the house and switches all the sockets off and unplugs everything that can be. Its probably over kill but it gives her peace of mind.
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I'm really sorry to read your experiences. Thats awful. I dont think what you and your partner do is overkill. If it makes you feel safer then thats only a positive thing.
 
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richy3333 said:
Ahhh your in Englandshire explains a lot.

Touche!

Can't answer some simple questions, has various videos showing non compliant work and doesn't like it when it's pointed out. Undertaking unnecessary work (and no doubt billing the customer). Childish comments vis vis 'bunch of old women' and now a dumb attempt at a veiled racist joke...

I think I have your measure :p

And to save you the bother - yes i wear a skirt, no I don't wear pants, yes I have a beard, yes I'm ginger (collar and cuffs), yes I eat intestines, yes I shag sheep (but not my own as that would be incest). Yes I like a pint of heavy and a dram of the uisge bertha. Yes I fancy the 'Sturge' (even if she looks like wee Jimmy Crankie) and yes I believe in independence.

Over to you now, lets hear your worst Chris...
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Hi Richard
I’m quite upset that you feel I was being racist in anyway. I was only pointing out the fact your in Scotland and work being quite thin on the ground there. You might have to much time on your hands to sit at your computer or iPhone screen trolling the internet to try and make others feel bad to in return make yourself feel big and better. I’m sorry you are ginger that can’t be helped unfortunately but I can recommend a good hair dye.
Going back to your original question regarding my competency I will definitely give you a detailed answer later on today when I’m not so busy doing unnecessary work and over charging my clients for it. Speak soon x
 
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Okay Richy and Chris enough is enough this has totally side tracked the thread and turned into a baiting match. I have deleted one post so either reply with regard to the OPs question or don't post at all.
 
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westward10 said:
Okay Richy and Chris enough is enough this has totally side tracked the thread and turned into a baiting match. I have deleted one post so either reply with regard to the OPs question or don't post at all.
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Reading the last couple of posts it's starting to put the forum in a bad light.
 
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I have taken a look at the video that was posted there was a big hole behind the existing consumer unit.
Now I have not fitted many Hager consumer units but it looks like there is knockouts on the back that knock out as a whole, not in parts so there is more aperture that is needed the only thing that can be done is make good the wall or seal the hole. How much is a tube of intermittent mastic?
 
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anthonybragg said:
I have taken a look at the video that was posted there was a big hole behind the existing consumer unit.
Now I have not fitted many Hager consumer units but it looks like there is knockouts on the back that knock out as a whole, not in parts so there is more aperture that is needed the only thing that can be done is make good the wall or seal the hole. How much is a tube of intermittent mastic?
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INTUMESCENT.
 
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leebut

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Sealing a consumer unit entry points??
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