Discuss Sealing a consumer unit entry points?? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Reevio

EF Member
Messages
13
Location
Oxford
@Reevio - It's somewhat childish to refer to us on this forum as a bunch of old women. You to are a member and therefore by definition must be an old woman also? :)

Here is my feedback, 'good or bad'...

The thing with Youtube is to a certain extent watchers do know you in thatchy know the quality of the work you do and whether it is right or wrong.

I've seen a few of your videos and do applaud you that you have the aptitude to do the videos. You clearly have your sycophants by virtue of some of the comments they make. I watched the videos for entertainment value not for technical content or quality. I've seen you give totally wrong statements/advice in your Youtube comments and again totally wrong information in the videos.

An example that springs to mind is the house where the owner took down a stud wall in the kitchen/lounge area. You jointed the cables using Wago connectors and then ****ed the lot in the ceiling void utilising either a Wagobox or a Wagobox light professing it was mainatenece free. It clearly was no such thing in the manner you had installed it and you could not have ever looked at any Wago literature on how to install the things.

I've also seen you install downlighters way too close to timber joists thinking that is ok to do.

I regret to say that I have a first year apprentice that knows both of the above examples are a not correct.

Can I ask your background because sometimes you are CRS, sometimes HRS. Most of your videos are electrical based but there were some where you did building work. Are you a builder by trade? Did you do an apprenticeship or a 5WW course?

I don't think the situation surrounding fire sealing is a grey area and other more respected and knowledgeable people on here have already pointed out your errors.

I dont think you make these videos to 'highlight grey areas and so they get shared around and discussed' (my paraphrasing) because if that were the case you'd not be making 'bog standard videos' of domestic rewires et al. How do they shed light on grey areas of the industry? You're a member here. I challenge you to post your 'grey area' videos here first for industry discussion, though I anticipate you won't have the nerve to do so???
Give me a call tomorrow we can have a chat
 

Dustydazzler

Regular EF Member
Messages
1,018
Location
Surrey
All this fuss over pretty much nothing...

If you want to caulk your fuse board then knock yourself out

If you don’t want to caulk it then fine just leave it caulk free
 

ferg

Electrician's Arms
Messages
1,088
Location
N.W.Scotland
spot-on best comment in this thread so far .
I'd be pretty Pee'd off if I went to a job to add a circuit and someone had filled the rear entry with sealant for absolutely no reason.

By publishing your point of view as best practice or regulation you are encouraging others to think the same way. Inexperienced sparks and potential customers.

Spreading misinformation by accident is one thing but continuing to do it once you know better is something else.
 
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Reevio

EF Member
Messages
13
Location
Oxford
I'd be pretty Pee'd off if I went to a job to add a circuit and someone had filled the rear entry with sealant for absolutely no reason.

By publishing your point of view as best practice or regulation you are encouraging others to think the same way. Inexperienced sparks and potential customers.

Spreading misinformation by accident is one thing but continuing to do it once you know better is something else.
Please don’t exaggerate. Let’s be honest all I’m doing is filling the gap next to the cables that didn’t get filled.
You’d be a better man than me if you could add an extra circuit in a consumer unit mounted to the wall. Without 1 having to cut a patch in the ceiling or wall. 2 having to remove the consumer unit to gain entry.
Let’s be honest there are 2 other available knockouts on the rear of the consumer unit and around 10-12 available knockouts on the top? Appreciate your comment.
 

Devonchris

Regular EF Member
Messages
349
Location
Devon
I use the sticky trunking to stand my metal clad consumer unit off the wall or wooden back board so my cables all enter the board through the rear entry holes so that flames from this non existent fire can’t escape the CU, I very rarely knock a knock out of either the sides or top
The fact you have created a void behind the CU with access for any heat and gases through the rear entry and into the void is, in effect, a chimney, with the possibility of, if gets hot enough, melting or setting fire to the top bit of trunking and therefore improving the chimney effect.

As others have said, I think there is a tendency, because of all the urban myths, to over think what should be a simple install. Just fix it to the wall, or a board, or whatever, that's what it was designed for without any revenue generating add ons from various manufacturers.

It's not supposed to be fire proof. It's designed to contain a fire within if one should occur. If a fire should occur there is not much in there that's going to burn anyway, which was the point in getting rid of the plastic.

Don't over think it and risk making it worst.
 
OP
L

leebut

Regular EF Member
Messages
101
Location
Bury
There is nothing wrong to go above and beyond what BS7671 requires.
Chris was told we are supposed to be sealing all entry points to the CU according The the wiring regulations by the guy running the course but that’s not what’s in the Regulations hence the post
 

westward10

In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream.
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,539
Location
Northamptonshire
Chris was told we are supposed to be sealing all entry points to the CU according The the wiring regulations by the guy running the course but that’s not what’s in the Regulations hence the post
You are spot on with your opening post. Problem here is the people who tutor the courses and scheme assessors feel the need to gild the lily and hence the blind follow the path.
 

davesparks

Forum Mentor
Messages
12,803
Location
guildford
Maintaining the fire integrity of a metal consumer unit surely is common sense no?
My jtl guy that did our 18th is also an NICEIC inspector he was very passionate about fire safety to the point we should also be fitting intumescent pads in the back of plastic boxes in stud partitions. A little added protection never hurts anyone and for the sake of £2.89 I will continue to do so.
A metal consumer unit doesn't have 'fire integrity' to start with, so it's pretty hard to maintain something which doesn't exist! Metal CU's are manufactured from a non combustible material, this is very different from being fire rated.
If something does have a fire rating then it will have been tested and certified as such, and will have the details of this in the manufacturers instructions. If it is fire proof it will have a specific duration which it will remain fireproof for, usually 30,60 or 90 minutes. Nothing remains fireproof forever, nor will it remain fire proof if exposed to a high enough temperature.

Intumescent pads are required only when the back boxes are fitted in a wall which forms a fire barrier. You can generally tell the difference because it will be specified on the architects drawings or usually because it's a double thickness of 15mm plasterboard.
 

Intoelectrics

Regular EF Member
Messages
218
Location
Midlands
A larger distribution board in a commercial or industrial setting, might need different considerations; a simple domestic CU does not need all these fire retardant measures.
I never once said domestic Cu's do require it, I said I chose to do so. It maybe completely unnecessary, useless, pointless or what ever else people's opinions might be, I don't particularly care. I do what I feel is right and what helps me sleep at night. I lost a relative in a house fire many years back so I'm a little more sensitive to fire risk than maybe most.

The regs are there as a guide for at the very least the minimum requirements to make an install safe. If an installer chooses to do something that they feel improves the safety/integrity of an install and it does not violate the standards set, then that's their prerogative.

Some folk might change their view if they got their fingers burnt (excuse the pun):)
 

Midwest

Electrician's Arms
Messages
11,184
Location
Oxfordshire
I never once said domestic Cu's do require it, I said I chose to do so. It maybe completely unnecessary, useless, pointless or what ever else people's opinions might be, I don't particularly care. I do what I feel is right and what helps me sleep at night. I lost a relative in a house fire many years back so I'm a little more sensitive to fire risk than maybe most.

The regs are there as a guide for at the very least the minimum requirements to make an install safe. If an installer chooses to do something that they feel improves the safety/integrity of an install and it does not violate the standards set, then that's their prerogative.

Some folk might change their view if they got their fingers burnt (excuse the pun):)
I'm sorry you've lost a loved one due to a fire, condolences.

But as has been already said, some are interpreting this now old'ish regulation, with their own take on it. They are not the only ones, some manufacturers are doing it as well.

A CU is not a fire hazard, when installed properly, it will not spontaneously combust. All this reg has done, is remove a source of fuel from a potential fire. That was what was conceived when this reg was made, but now it has be conceived by some to be a containment of a potential fire. Ridiculous really, with an open aperture for devices & insecure lid.
 

davesparks

Forum Mentor
Messages
12,803
Location
guildford
I lost a relative in a house fire many years back so I'm a little more sensitive to fire risk than maybe most.

The regs are there as a guide for at the very least the minimum requirements to make an install safe. If an installer chooses to do something that they feel improves the safety/integrity of an install and it does not violate the standards set, then that's their prerogative.

Some folk might change their view if they got their fingers burnt (excuse the pun):)
Was this fire started by an electrical fault?

The point is that while the installer may feel like they are going above and beyond the requirements and making it safer than the minimum standards they are likely achieving absolutely nothing other than wasting time and materials. Also they often make the issue worse by misrepresenting their efforts as a requirement or a safety improvement they are neither.

This leads to problems down the line as people have an annoying habit of believing hearsay and gossip over things written in black and white in the regulations. Just look at the number rof things which get picked up on EICRs which are non-issues.
 

richy3333

Forum Mentor
Messages
2,028
Location
North West Scotland
Was this fire started by an electrical fault?

The point is that while the installer may feel like they are going above and beyond the requirements and making it safer than the minimum standards they are likely achieving absolutely nothing other than wasting time and materials. Also they often make the issue worse by misrepresenting their efforts as a requirement or a safety improvement they are neither.

This leads to problems down the line as people have an annoying habit of believing hearsay and gossip over things written in black and white in the regulations. Just look at the number rof things which get picked up on EICRs which are non-issues.
Agreed. And who pays for all this extra unnecessary work - the customer I guess.
 
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Reevio

EF Member
Messages
13
Location
Oxford
Body swerve and cop out eh?! I see no reason that you can’t put your response on here for the forum members to read?

I did try calling but after 437 guesses at your number I had to give up :( However I’m not really that keen on talking to sassanachs ;)
No I will answer in due course that’s not a problem just wanted to talk to you personally as your comment was aimed personally at me and not the issue of fire sealing a consumer unit.
 

richy3333

Forum Mentor
Messages
2,028
Location
North West Scotland
Can't really see the need for personal phone calls to be honest.
@DPG Think he wants a date o_O That or some proper training :)

Cant see why he can't answer the questions.

He called us all a bunch of old women, thats personal comment on everyone. Perhaps every member of the forum should ring him
 
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Reevio

EF Member
Messages
13
Location
Oxford
@DPG Think he wants a date o_O That or some proper training :)

Cant see why he can't answer the questions.

He called us all a bunch of old women, thats personal comment on everyone. Perhaps every member of the forum should ring him
Ahhh your in Scotland explains a lot.
 

Intoelectrics

Regular EF Member
Messages
218
Location
Midlands
Was this fire started by an electrical fault?

The point is that while the installer may feel like they are going above and beyond the requirements and making it safer than the minimum standards they are likely achieving absolutely nothing other than wasting time and materials. Also they often make the issue worse by misrepresenting their efforts as a requirement or a safety improvement they are neither.

This leads to problems down the line as people have an annoying habit of believing hearsay and gossip over things written in black and white in the regulations. Just look at the number rof things which get picked up on EICRs which are non-issues.
The fire in the control board was caused by a poor connection. The fire at my Aunt's was caused by a faulty appliance.

I don't disagree with you! there is nothing worse than someone stating something is a requirement when this is not so.

I do what I do for my own peace of mind, whether its a waste of time or not does not concern me because if it helps me sleep at night then its worth the effort.
For example my partner goes around the house and switches all the sockets off and unplugs everything that can be. Its probably over kill but it gives her peace of mind.
 

richy3333

Forum Mentor
Messages
2,028
Location
North West Scotland
Ahhh your in Scotland explains a lot.
Ahhh your in Englandshire explains a lot.

Touche!

Can't answer some simple questions, has various videos showing non compliant work and doesn't like it when it's pointed out. Undertaking unnecessary work (and no doubt billing the customer). Childish comments vis vis 'bunch of old women' and now a dumb attempt at a veiled racist joke...

I think I have your measure :p

And to save you the bother - yes i wear a skirt, no I don't wear pants, yes I have a beard, yes I'm ginger (collar and cuffs), yes I eat intestines, yes I shag sheep (but not my own as that would be incest). Yes I like a pint of heavy and a dram of the uisge bertha. Yes I fancy the 'Sturge' (even if she looks like wee Jimmy Crankie) and yes I believe in independence.

Over to you now, lets hear your worst Chris...
 

richy3333

Forum Mentor
Messages
2,028
Location
North West Scotland
The fire in the control board was caused by a poor connection. The fire at my Aunt's was caused by a faulty appliance.

I don't disagree with you! there is nothing worse than someone stating something is a requirement when this is not so.

I do what I do for my own peace of mind, whether its a waste of time or not does not concern me because if it helps me sleep at night then its worth the effort.
For example my partner goes around the house and switches all the sockets off and unplugs everything that can be. Its probably over kill but it gives her peace of mind.
I'm really sorry to read your experiences. Thats awful. I dont think what you and your partner do is overkill. If it makes you feel safer then thats only a positive thing.
 

westward10

In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream.
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,539
Location
Northamptonshire
Okay Richy and Chris enough is enough this has totally side tracked the thread and turned into a baiting match. I have deleted one post so either reply with regard to the OPs question or don't post at all.
 

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