Smoke Alarm's

[bertie1311]

Is it pretty common practice these days to put smoke alarms on their own circuit when rewiring a domestic property ? If so, does it appear in the regs as good practise because I've always put them on the end of a lighting circuit due to the fact that to the untrained. If there's no lights on then they'll seek out the con unit to rectify.

All responses very appreciated, thanks before hand.

Bert

 

[dazza1981]

Hi mate the smokes and heat detectors we have been installing on new build sites in london have there own dedicated circuit.

 

[Patto]

In my limited experience ive always known them to be installed on there own circuit were ever possible and generally on the non rcd side of a board.

 

[dan86]

I always install on their own circuit, but frequently come across them on the lighting circuit. same as most people I'd guess.

 

[dazza1981]

Be prepared for reg number 558373.56565 to be thrown at you by the top bods any moment now lol

 

[Octopus]

In my limited experience ive always known them to be installed on there own circuit were ever possible and generally on the non rcd side of a board.

On a rewire??

Personally I always now put them on a lighting circuit.

 

[Patto]

Just whats been said to me before, thinking about it I suppose know one would know if they were faulty were as if on a lighting circuit youd be aware you were in the dark lol

 

[Octopus]

Just whats been said to me before, thinking about it I suppose know one would know if they were faulty were as if on a lighting circuit youd be aware you were in the dark lol

I'm still curious how you can have a non RCD side under the current regs, when doing a rewire!

 

[Patto]

Were did I mention rewire?

 

[Octopus]

Were did I mention rewire?

You didn't but the OP did - so the "advice" he is looking for is applicable to rewires!

 

[bertie1311]

Nice 1, pretty much what I was expecting and now to check out the reg no.

:icon6:

 

[Octopus]

Nice 1, pretty much what I was expecting and now to check out the reg no.

:icon6:

I think you are going to struggle, as BS 7671 doesn't cover smoke alarms. I recall guidance a while back was on a dedicated circuit but now its put them on a lighting circuit.

Google Aico and see what they recommend!

 

[telectrix]

i prefer to put on a lighting circuit. reason...... if on their own circuit and they lose the supply, the detectors will bleep as a warning. now we're dealing with muppets and numpties here who, rather than find out why they're bleeping, will remove the batteries to shut them up. but if a lighting circuit goes off, they'll usually sort it in order to read the daily mirror when on the bog.

 

[Des 56]

Yet again the old smokes on a light circuit or dedicated circuit thread


Tazz will no doubt clear this up later,meanwhile my opinion is
A fire alarm system as used in buildings asks for a supply that is not interrupted by faults on other circuits (part 1)
This guidance is then taken by some to adopt to a bog standard household smoke/heat alarms

Completely and utterly agree with tel
Without getting the Bs out again,from memory it says something along these lines in Bs 5839 part 6

They can have a (1) a dedicated circuit to supply the smokes or (2)be fed from a local lighting circuit
The latter being preferable

 

[applemac]

Just looked in the aico contractors handbook, states in brackets mains 230v ac power supply, and for the radio link base from lighting circuit.

 

[electricshock]

Dedicated circuit and stick it in with one of the lighting circuits. You can make it separate later on if need be.

 

[vernam616]

Ive always wired the smokes back to the DB and double it up with a lighting circuit, if the customer ever requires them to be on a seperate circuit, its easily achieved.

However if you had them pulled off a random lighting point, you have no other options for them to ever be seperate should it be required, i totally agree with the above about being on the lighting circuit as you would be aware you had no lighting and would rectify the issue, basically forcing smoke alarms on people, because as sad as it is, people take the batterys out to stop them bleeping they are the ones who usually burn to death for the sake of a £1 battery

 

[NJR]

Always as a dedicated circuit, on an rcbo or mcb that is not on an RCD

 

[vernam616]

So what happens if its accidentally knocked off at the board? or the breaker fails?

you wouldn't be aware until your burning to death and wondering why the smoke alarm failed to go off, regardless of what the regs say i see it as bad practice

 

[dazza1981]

Why not on an rcd 17th edition board???
Is there a reg that says that heats and smokes should not be on an rcd?
Im not saying your wrong but that just means that ive 1st and 2nd fixed 38 flats for barratt homes wrong and the architect is wrong which i very much doubt!

 

[MDJ]

So what happens if its accidentally knocked off at the board? or the breaker fails?

you wouldn't be aware until your burning to death and wondering why the smoke alarm failed to go off, regardless of what the regs say i see it as bad practice

Ever heard of a battery back up? :lipsrsealed2:

 

[vernam616]

No i have not, is this a new thing?

So.. breaker gets knocked off and battery runs flat, so it starts bleeping, what do you think the average idiotic customer does? yes thats right... takes the battery out

So how does the smoke alarm operate in the event of a fire with no mains supply and no battery back up?


I remember now why i had to leave this forum for a while....

 

[MDJ]

No i have not, is this a new thing?

So.. breaker gets knocked off and battery runs flat, so it starts bleeping, what do you think the average idiotic customer does? yes thats right... takes the battery out

So how does the smoke alarm operate in the event of a fire with no mains supply and no battery back up?


I remember now why i had to leave this forum for a while....

they stick some selotape over the detector to make the beeping quiet lmao

 

[dazza1981]

No i have not, is this a new thing?

So.. breaker gets knocked off and battery runs flat, so it starts bleeping, what do you think the average idiotic customer does? yes thats right... takes the battery out

So how does the smoke alarm operate in the event of a fire with no mains supply and no battery back up?


I remember now why i had to leave this forum for a while....

Ok mate can you tell barratt homes that please!!!!

 

[MDJ]

No i have not, is this a new thing?

So.. breaker gets knocked off and battery runs flat, so it starts bleeping, what do you think the average idiotic customer does? yes thats right... takes the battery out

So how does the smoke alarm operate in the event of a fire with no mains supply and no battery back up?


I remember now why i had to leave this forum for a while....

Never missed you to be honest but as your here now I will say =Hello nice to see you. Mike

 

[NJR]

If someone is stupid enough to disable their smoke alarm thats their own problem. I wouldnt lose any sleep over their own stupidity.

 

[MDJ]

Ive always wired the smokes back to the DB and double it up with a lighting circuit, if the customer ever requires them to be on a seperate circuit, its easily achieved.

However if you had them pulled off a random lighting point, you have no other options for them to ever be seperate should it be required, i totally agree with the above about being on the lighting circuit as you would be aware you had no lighting and would rectify the issue, basically forcing smoke alarms on people, because as sad as it is, people take the batterys out to stop them bleeping they are the ones who usually burn to death for the sake of a £1 battery

I would dismiss you if you did that, No need to have 2 phase conductors in a breaker these days on a new install, continuing the lighting circuit and adding the smokes is quite normal by some and I won't argue that, but purposely doubling up pretty poor IMO. For what it is worth and it may not be much I always add fire detection on it's own circuit, that said I have no issue with fire detection on lighting circuits.

 

[wozz]

Sacked for two conductors in a breaker? what harm does it really do?! I take it you are not referring to rings aswel!

 

[MDJ]

Sacked for two conductors in a breaker? what harm does it really do?! I take it you are not referring to rings aswel!

LOL, I bet my misses it would take 2 mins to get a response, it took 4, I lost, looks Like I am doing the washing up haha

 

[electricshock]

No i have not, is this a new thing?

So.. breaker gets knocked off and battery runs flat, so it starts bleeping, what do you think the average idiotic customer does? yes thats right... takes the battery out

So how does the smoke alarm operate in the event of a fire with no mains supply and no battery back up?


I remember now why i had to leave this forum for a while....

Can't mess with aicos. I have to smother the things to keep them quite.

 

[wozz]

sorry mate was making tea.

 

[electricshock]

I normally scare my customers by telling them a true story. One job I went to, the customer had only an alarm clock plugged in an extension lead. In the middle of the extension lead cable something happened and caught fire. I was told the tenant actually came back in the house 15min after leaving to get something. That's when he heard the smokes gone off. He went upstairs and saw the carpet on flames. He had to throw a bucket of water on it.

 

[Maddison]

Pretty sure on any new install it's required to be on its own circuit. Not sure about an addition tho ?, can't remember where I read this but electricians guide to the building regs springs to mind ?

 

[tazz]

Its only recommended to fit mains smoke alarms on there own mcb, if they have no means of battery backup a Grade E system or the detector has no separate connection base. So with Aico, having its own termination base and battery backup to Grade D, power maybe supplied from either lighting circuit or its own mcb...choice is yours...Please guys remember these are Part 6 detectors for private dwellings and not for commercial shops, offices, pubs or Petrol stations, as Shell have just been fined for from H&S