Solar panels - no brainer for us?

[Spinball]

Hope it's ok to post in here when I'm not an electrician. My Dad (now retired) served his apprenticeship with the MEB and ran a TV repair and rental shop for decades. That's about as close to an electrical qualification I'll get.
Anyhow, I was brought here by Google when I was searching for information on thermodynamic systems.

We have a large house from which we run an IT business. We also have a small indoor pool. Our combined gas and electric bills are in the region of £450 a month and we want to get these down.
Two of us are at working from home during the day and the heating has been on 24/7 since October.
I want to find some solutions to bring our energy bills down.
We live on the Birmingham/Worcestershire border with a large, south facing expanse of roof. We have no intention of moving house again.

My neighbour got MSC accreditation last year and he is quoting us for installing 4x250 watt solar panels. Getting solar panels seems to be somewhat of a no-brainer given that we use a fair amount of electricity during the day.
Do you agree?

With regards to heating and hot water, I would ideally like to significantly reduce our gas bill.
We have two old Mexico boilers which we are going to almost certainly replace with two Worcester Bosch 30is.
But what configuration of plumbing will be influenced by whether we have a solar hot water system as well. The hot water tank is a few feet from the south facing roof.
I've read up a bit and until MSC approve heat pump installs and there are some real world figures in, I think it might be wiser to wait on the thermodynamic solution.
But I'm not sure. If we could get a system which heated the pool at least, I would feel a lot less guilty.

Any advice welcome.
Thanks

 

[whinmoor]

Solar panels are a great idea in most cases - especially if people are at home in the daytime and can use the free solar electricity. Why install only 4 panels if you have a "large" south facing roof? Do you have any shading nearby? Or do you want to leave space for a solar thermal system? Or are their financial constraints?

 

[Spinball]

Apologies, I mistyped. 16 x 250 watt panels to produce 4Kw. There is space on the roof for lots of panels no problem.
There are some big trees off to the south east but they are a fair way off.
I have just taken a panorama photo out of the skylight in the middle of the roof to show you.

This view is about 10 degrees west of south. SSW.

 

[whinmoor]

Ok - that makes a lot more sense. Any shading? Chimneys or trees in the area?

 

[Spinball]

The trees over to the south east are pretty tall, but that's about it.
The financial constraints are that we are not flush by any means, so every expense has to be justified.
But with our combined energy bill being in the region of £450 a month, we *have* to do something. I think replacing the boilers should make a big difference. Going for at least a 10% improvement in efficiency there.

 

[whinmoor]

Looks like a great site for solar panels. Definitely worth getting surveys and quotations to see if the finances stack up.

 

[Spinball]

Thanks. 16p per KWh now, right?

 

[whinmoor]

Did your neighbour install panels on his own house? If so, that might cause minor complications in a rural area with few houses in the vicinity. Are you in a Conservation Area? If so, that may also be an issue but one which can usually be overcome.

 

[whinmoor]

The current FiT rate is 15.44p per kWh plus 4.5p for exporting half of it. You could investigate the possibility of getting an Immersun device to re-direct your surplus solar electricity to heat your water via your immersion heater (assuming you have a cylinder).

 

[whinmoor]

Oh - you also need to get a D rating on your Energy Performance Certificate to get the 15.44p which might be a problem for a large, old property in a rural area, especially if it's not on the mains gas system. This is probably the first thing to check. The good news is that the solar panels can be included in the EPC so if your home is now a Band E, the PV may increase the score enough to make it a Band D.

 

[Spinball]

Thanks for your replies.

Did your neighbour install panels on his own house? If so, that might cause minor complications in a rural area with few houses in the vicinity. Are you in a Conservation Area? If so, that may also be an issue but one which can usually be overcome.

Yes he put 16 panels on his house. He showed the system to me this morning actually.
The area is not rural. Semi-rural at best. We're lucky enough to have a paddock beyond the back garden which might give the impression that we live out in the country, but we really don't.

The current FiT rate is 15.44p per kWh plus 4.5p for exporting half of it. You could investigate the possibility of getting an Immersun device to re-direct your surplus solar electricity to heat your water via your immersion heater (assuming you have a cylinder).

Ok, I will look into that, thanks.

Oh - you also need to get a D rating on your Energy Performance Certificate to get the 15.44p which might be a problem for a large, old property in a rural area, especially if it's not on the mains gas system. This is probably the first thing to check. The good news is that the solar panels can be included in the EPC so if your home is now a Band E, the PV may increase the score enough to make it a Band D.

The house has 5 bedrooms and was built in the 70's and is on mains gas. According to the sales brochure (which I still have from when we bought the house in 2011), it has energy efficiency and environmental impact ratings of E with D potential.

 

[Worcester]

Solar PV no brainer if you are working at home, also do not nescessarily have to be fitted to roof of house, we have done garages, workshops, groundmounts etc. (The edge of the paddock might do )
Apart from finance limitations, what's keeping you down to 4kWp? (We've done 7kWp, 10 kWp, 15 kWp and 50kWp domestic installations)
Also consider something like the immersun - allows you to maximise you use of generated power.
As you are on gas, then consider updating to a modern condensing bolier.
Change your lighting to LED, add in PIR's in the office and kids rooms
Also add in solar thermal for hot water / pool heating

 

[Spinball]

As I understand it we're not allowed to have more than 4KW of panels because we only have single phase electricity to the property.
I had thought about putting the panels in the paddock but we will have ponies in there eventually, so positioning would not be completely straightforward. Plus having high voltage cables running under the lawn isn't ideal.
We're almost certainly having two Worcester 30 CDi boilers put in.
I have already written articles on LED lights (Replacing light bulbs with LEDs - LED lightbulb information | AVForums.com - UK Online) and have tested a few different types. LEDs are still somewhat expensive and in limited designs for most consumers. For example I wanted three B15 LEDs to fit in our lobby, but I had to get tungsten ones as no LEDs were available. But the £50 Philips 12watt B22 which we put in the lamp on the drive (on a light sensor) has lasted through two winters no problem. I'm a big fan of LED lighting.
PIRs though. Have thought about that but don;t fancy putting actual PIRs in the rooms. Would be better if there was a light fitting (or bulb) with a motion sensor built into it.
Will solar thermal produce enough hot water to run a 4m x 8m pool, 4 bathrooms and 38 radiators?

 

[Worcester]

As I understand it we're not allowed to have more than 4KW of panels because we only have single phase electricity to the property.

Not true, need to approach DNO first - your chosen installer should know this

I had thought about putting the panels in the paddock but we will have ponies in there eventually, so positioning would not be completely straightforward. Plus having high voltage cables running under the lawn isn't ideal.

Fence the are off and SWA buried to the correct depth, no problem, do it all the time.

Will solar thermal produce enough hot water to run a 4m x 8m pool, 4 bathrooms and 38 radiators?

A big enough one can do Live solar hot water data display - 4 Zone Central Heating System, Pool and Hot Water or Solar Hot Water and Central Heating Online System - Bath UK

We can supply B15 LED's Golf Ball? Candle? ..

 

[Spinball]

We don't have an immersion heater. Just gas boilers heating the water as well as the radiators and the pool.
Can Worcester 30 CDi boilers be connected to an Immersun in any way so it can supplement their output?
If you sell LEDs, you should list them on your website. Couldn't find a small enough golf ball B15 LED for love nor money.

 

[Earthstore]

As you are in business, you will understand that if you borrow the money at a decent rate and what you spend it on earns you more than the repayments then it is a win win situation.
PV will do this for you, IE 10% return borrow at 4%, that leaves you 6% to pay of the capital, FIT is index linked, and there is only one way energy prices are going, so if the sums add up in year one then they will only improve for you year on year.

Due to your outlined circumstances get the largest system that money/space/ and the DNO(people that own the grid) will allow.

As to the heating, have you looked at Airsource heatpumps? Installed and designed correctly they do work really well, thermodynamics are still an unknown, most of the industry is skeptical about there performance claims, but there again there are many that say that ground/airsource heatpumps do not work, which I can assure you is totally incorrect, I have seen many that have been running for long periods now and are out performing anything else in the market place, they have not all been without their initial problems though, but were install/design faults.

You do have to invest to save, if the government back their Greendeal scheme, (pay the loan off with the savings even with rates as high as 7-10%, you can certainly do it better yourself with the correct advice.

I hope this helps.

 

[SolarCity]

Out of interest, where exactly are you?

 

[Spinball]

Out of interest, where exactly are you?

Barnt Green

 

[SolarCity]

Nice area. Be did an install on Cofton Church Lane last year.

 

[High Tower]

Very nice area I know it well, I've worked in cofton too, there's a small wholesaler and contractors called ALP I think, one of our main competition on a particular national contract but I don't mind as they are good lads!!