Something just doesnt feel right

[magnoliafan89]

hi guys

Could be wrong but doing a condition report and come across this. Pretty typical for this block of maisonettes to have swa coming from the main building supply into an adaptable box and this set up.

However I've noticed this one has the neutral go straight into the main switch and has a link from the meter....

Could be fine but something is just saying it doesn't feel right.

Is this OK or not??

 

[SparkyChick]

The neutral is usually just a commoning block in the meter but I agree... it just doesn't feel right. I think much of my feels is coming from the quality of the neutral connection in the main switch. That connection to the meter isn't going to be carrying much in the way of current (I believe it's only used in the meter for the voltage sensing and the electronics) but that doesn't preclude the possibility that the connection at the main switch could be bad.

The other thing that peaks my interest is the connection method of the live... looks like a chocblock wrapped in tape. Have only ever used proper uninsulated butt crimps for terminations that large (aside from a couple of large screw junction boxes for cookers/showers) so if it is a chocblock... I think I'd be making a note on the certificate about it.

 

[snowhead]

And it looks like someone got to the meter before the Fairies arrived.
Where's the join in the Yellow, presumably a CPC?
Any bonding?

Is that a sub meter or the supplier's?

For those of us with aging eyesight;

 

[Lucien Nunes]

If it's a suppliers meter it's not right, and if it's a checkmeter it's plain daft. The reason the neutral goes through the meter, traditionally, is that the energy charged for is what comes out of the load terminals, because the meter registers the power as the product of the voltage between L & N and the current from supply L to load L. In reality what this translates to is that if the neutral is disconnected from the meter, it doesn't register and the customer gets free electricity. Therefore, the meter's neutral connection must never go through the customer's equipment such that it could be disconnected.

With smart meters with internal motorised switches and batteries, it's possible for the meter to disconnect the customer if current continues to flow through the line terminal in the absence of voltage between line and neutral. But I really can't see why anyone would think this is correct, unless it's the result of previous tampering.

 

[magnoliafan89]

If it's a suppliers meter it's not right, and if it's a checkmeter it's plain daft. The reason the neutral goes through the meter, traditionally, is that the energy charged for is what comes out of the load terminals, because the meter registers the power as the product of the voltage between L & N and the current from supply L to load L. In reality what this translates to is that if the neutral is disconnected from the meter, it doesn't register and the customer gets free electricity. Therefore, the meter's neutral connection must never go through the customer's equipment such that it could be disconnected.

With smart meters with internal motorised switches and batteries, it's possible for the meter to disconnect the customer if current continues to flow through the line terminal in the absence of voltage between line and neutral. But I really can't see why anyone would think this is correct, unless it's the result of previous tampering.

Would you code it or make a note??

It comes from a cut out fuse in another part of the building which goes to an old meter this then feeds an mem switchgear from here goes the swa to the adaptable box that you see.

 

[SparkyChick]

If it's a suppliers meter it's not right, and if it's a checkmeter it's plain daft. The reason the neutral goes through the meter, traditionally, is that the energy charged for is what comes out of the load terminals, because the meter registers the power as the product of the voltage between L & N and the current from supply L to load L. In reality what this translates to is that if the neutral is disconnected from the meter, it doesn't register and the customer gets free electricity. Therefore, the meter's neutral connection must never go through the customer's equipment such that it could be disconnected.

With smart meters with internal motorised switches and batteries, it's possible for the meter to disconnect the customer if current continues to flow through the line terminal in the absence of voltage between line and neutral. But I really can't see why anyone would think this is correct, unless it's the result of previous tampering.

That's a very good point and one I must admit didn't really cross my mind. Everyday is a school day

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Right, so it's not the supplier's meter. Is the vacant terminal in the meter plugged to a suitable IP rating? Are the tails secure and properly fixed? Looks shonky to me. And, am I seeing things or is that T+E in the meter N and load L terminals? The cables in the series 7 look circular but the others?

 

[streamer]

It looks like the live and the neutral are entering the consumer unit at different points which isn't correct.

 

[freddo]

Certainly a rough install, there are a few suppliers meters wired in a similar '3 wire' fashion in the local area. Often seen when the meter has been moved from high level down to low level as they see it as dangerous if the user has to climb on something to reach a key meter. The neutral block would be sealed though and the unused N hole plugged...

 

[magnoliafan89]

It looks like the live and the neutral are entering the consumer unit at different points which isn't correct.

Yeh they have different entry points. Only a c3 given as no signs of thermal damage

 

[Vortigern]

If I read this right, the SWA is already metered at the main cut-out? And maybe that meter local to the DB is redundant so it has been bypassed, maybe. Think I would C2 exposed live terminals at that meter, unless there is a cover for it? Maybe a note on the condition of the suppliers equipment/meter. I think those meters have an internal fuse if that went it could be difficult to remedy/find.
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And what about the fly-lead as well?

 

[littlespark]

If its wired without a neutral to somehow get free, or cheap electricity.... have a look in the attic for a few growbags and the innards of an old street light.

 

[magnoliafan89]

If I read this right, the SWA is already metered at the main cut-out? And maybe that meter local to the DB is redundant so it has been bypassed, maybe. Think I would C2 exposed live terminals at that meter, unless there is a cover for it? Maybe a note on the condition of the suppliers equipment/meter. I think those meters have an internal fuse if that went it could be difficult to remedy/find.
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And what about the fly-lead as well?

I took the cover off. That meter is still in use.
Don't fret though I isolated the supply to everything in the flat from the original MEM switch in the main building and proved dead.

Fly lead???

 

[littlespark]

Fly lead???

A very small lead and collar for taking your fly for a walk ?

 

[Vortigern]

From the banjo on the SWA in the first picture. (fly lead) i.e. the earth lead to MET from the gland of the SWA.
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That meter is still in use.

How does it work with no neutral, unless I am seeing the wrong thing?

 

[magnoliafan89]

From the banjo on the SWA in the first picture. (fly lead) i.e. the earth lead to MET from the gland of the SWA.
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How does it work with no neutral, unless I am seeing the wrong thing?

Mate you got me confused now ??
He was up and running when I got there. I presume it works with the fact the neutrals share the same connection on the main switch??

 

[Vortigern]

Mate you got me confused now

That makes two of us, not meant to confuse though!

 

[freddo]

I wouldn't have installed it like that, mostly to avoid having to fit 2 'large' cables into the main switch terminal.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

It has a neutral, just wired in completely the wrong way

 

[Vortigern]

Admittedly this is a bit thick, but for the life of me I cannot see that neutral. I can see a neutral from the supply side going to the CU with the neutral supply in the main switch but not the feed side at the meter. How will that work at the meter? Yours confused. I have had a long day I suppose.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

The SWA blue core goes into the main switch, then a grey cable loops out of the switch terminal, goes back through the adaptable box and down to the supply N terminal in the meter.

the connection method of the live... looks like a chocblock wrapped in tape.

It looks to me like a Legrand line tap, which might be adequate for the job current-wise, but it's still shoddy floating around in the box like that, with one cable exiting without mechanical restraint.

Legrand line taps