Spot light question

[liambroad]

A bit of advice is needed chaps , got called to a house today to complete spoitlights that the owner had started basicly he marked out and cut the holes out where he wanted the lights and wanted me to wire up the lights he got from BBQ they are 12v 25w halogens. problem is that one of the spotlights just missed a joist and is about 10mm from it , i need to know is there anything i can do to stop the heat getting to the joist ? As a last resort i know ill have to redo his holes , but i can help it i dont want that. any suggestions ?
thanks alot.

 

[telectrix]

can you blank that 1 off without the pattewn then looking like a dog's breakfast, or move it a few inches and patch the original hole?

 

[Amp David]

Personally i would move it. There will be a min distance in the instructions that they have to be installed from joists etc.

The other option is to replace them with main fittings and LEDs

 

[Ponty Massive]

A bit of advice is needed chaps , got called to a house today to complete spoitlights that the owner had started basicly he marked out and cut the holes out where he wanted the lights and wanted me to wire up the lights he got from BBQ they are 12v 25w halogens. problem is that one of the spotlights just missed a joist and is about 10mm from it , i need to know is there anything i can do to stop the heat getting to the joist ? As a last resort i know ill have to redo his holes , but i can help it i dont want that. any suggestions ?
thanks alot.

Is the rest of the light exposed and able to disapate the heat into free air, can the transformer be place away from the beam? If so, I'd be tempted to just fit it.
Moving lights adjusting the pattern etc would be a nightmare!

 

[truckster]

I had a similar one to this and fitted some supalux to the joist as protection. Checked back on it several times and no sign of heat damage so I guess its doing its job.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I know it's far from ideal, but maybe you could protect the joist from heat damage by using something like this...

Toolstation > Hand Tools > Plumbers Torches & Accessories > Burn Barrier

Obviously it would preferable to relocate the fitting.

 

[liambroad]

Thanks for the quick reply gents , i could move the fitting but it would mean moving the other 5 too , to keep them looking inline , the fitting has free air all around apart from the joist ,

 

[liambroad]

Personally i would move it. There will be a min distance in the instructions that they have to be installed from joists etc.

The other option is to replace them with main fittings and LEDs

would i be able to swap like for like from halogen to LEDs , is guessing this is because LEDS give of less heat ?

 

[Amp David]

would i be able to swap like for like from halogen to LEDs , is guessing this is because LEDS give of less heat ?

A lot lot less, but reading the suggestions posted by others regarding covering the timber with some kind of heat barrier, it would be another solution.

Never thought of using products like that to protect joinst/timbers before.

 

[liambroad]

I Forgot to mention that the spotlight is a 'open top' and is not enclosed (in the void) will this make a difference ?

 

[liambroad]

Would fitting a fire hood do the same thing ?

 

[cjp1]

I would probably fit a fire hood and leave well alone,
I have seen lots of 50w gu10s and mr16 fittings near touching joists and they have been fine, not what I would do nor recomend doing but if the holes are already cut and ceiling decorated you options are a bit limited.

 

[Des 56]

The way I would look at the problem
Ask myself why should they be apart from the beams,conclusion,they can cook them and possibly cause a fire
Given that the damage has been done,the hole has been cut,the solution would be to make it so that heat damage will not occur
Led lamps or
I would insulate the beam with heat retardent material,a little bit of Welsh slate tacked on there should do the trick

On a further point,it would take some enormous heat source to set fire to the side of a beam
If the heat build up was that intense,the cable would likely melt and the light would go out before beam damage.or at least that would be my reckoning

 

[GLENNSPARK]

How about getting 1 of those heat resistant pads that plumbers use when soldering near tiles etc and using that to deflect heat away from the joist. Maybe someones already mentioned that here.......

 

[liambroad]

Thanks for the tips guys i went with using the plumbers heat pad , only £3 from the wholesalers bit of a bargin me thinks

 

[Hawk]

If the fitting has an F without a bar across it then it CAN be fixed within combustible material (wood, MDF etc) if it has a cross within the F and trianlge then it must not be installed within combustible material. Another option is to get a fire hood. Page 150 in the 17th edition.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Thanks for the tips guys i went with using the plumbers heat pad , only £3 from the wholesalers bit of a bargin me thinks

A reasonable solution to a dodgy problem. (and it was my suggestion! I'm skint so there's no point in suing me)
My only concern is that, are you doing a minor works cert with the knowledge that there is a dubious bit of installation going on, ie, light fitting installed not to manufacturers specs & you know it's too close to a joist???

 

[JamesBrownLive]

A reasonable solution to a dodgy problem. (and it was my suggestion! I'm skint so there's no point in suing me)
My only concern is that, are you doing a minor works cert with the knowledge that there is a dubious bit of installation going on, ie, light fitting installed not to manufacturers specs & you know it's too close to a joist???

You bring up an extremely interesting point regarding how far people should go in bending the rules. I guess it boils down to how badly the individual in question needs the work? Stick rigidly to them and risk losing the work, or be flexible and possibly have some worry :uhoh2:
No doubt in these cases, if a property was damaged in anyway due to rule bending, the owner would be after you like a shot.

I guess when work is plentyful, walking away from recalcitrant owners is rather easier :yes:

 

[Blowcat]

I think thats a perfect solution for the problem using the plumbers heat pad. Install it well and I wouldn't worry about it anymore. Seen a couple of joists notched out to get the lights it and never noticed any charring on the wood.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think thats a perfect solution for the problem using the plumbers heat pad. Install it well and I wouldn't worry about it anymore. Seen a couple of joists notched out to get the lights it and never noticed any charring on the wood.

I've got disagree on that statement.

The regs specifically state that equipment should be installed to manus specs, in this case xxmills gap etc. so it is a botch job.
There is so much chit chat on here about doing monkey work, diy efforts are going to burn your house down, it's your name on the documentation etc etc etc...the OP should just so NO.

Or just do it, sign nothing and take the money and run

 

[Engineer54]

I've got disagree on that statement.

The regs specifically state that equipment should be installed to manus specs, in this case xxmills gap etc. so it is a botch job.
There is so much chit chat on here about doing monkey work, diy efforts are going to burn your house down, it's your name on the documentation etc etc etc...the OP should just so NO.

Or just do it, sign nothing and take the money and run

If only the world were so perfect!! lol!!

The truth is, all too often you need to modify electrical installations to suit the site conditions. I wouldn't be able to count the number of times i've had to sign off on modifications, big and small i've had to make over the years.

I'm not saying in this particular situation, ....I would need to make my own on site assessment, but that's the nature of being a professional hired to do a job of work. Alas it all comes down to having the experience, to enable you to make these judgement calls. The Reg's are there for a purpose, they give you guidance, they can't always give you the answer to every situation you will encounter on site, nor do we expect them too.

 

[Silly Sausage]

If only the world were so perfect!! lol!!

Come and live(is that right?) in my world hahahaha, the frigging rain is rotting my brains again.

The way I read the OPs post is he's essentially doing a new installation so bodging a miss placed light is no good.
The suggestion of using a heat resistant mat is great for a remidial but not for a new install. We're not talking Cyprus installs here

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Do they sling those "hookups" over the cables and down to an "intake" if you could call it that in cyprus archy or is that still just reserved for african backwaters.......

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think my brains are turning to mush, you've lost me there Glen.
Anyway, I'm off to Ireland tomorrow, with some test gear!. The wife's uncle had a new house built, none of the TV ariel connections work, automatic garage door has a mind of its own, should be OK for lashings of sweet Guiness for a week!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Havn`t you seen that one archy? In the shanty towns in some african states they basically nick power by lashing up a harness to feed current down to there dwelling (hut). I think they just aim well and sling it over the power cable and tap to the earth wire (SWER)....and there off.........

 

[Engineer54]

Come and live(is that right?) in my world hahahaha, the frigging rain is rotting my brains again.

The way I read the OPs post is he's essentially doing a new installation so bodging a miss placed light is no good.
The suggestion of using a heat resistant mat is great for a remidial but not for a new install. We're not talking Cyprus installs here

I rarely work on existing installations, my earlier post is life in the real world, and far away from anything you'll find in Cyprus. ...lol!!! New or old you need to work with what you have, and that's not always ideal, it's how you deal it, that makes the difference!!

 

[Engineer54]

Havn`t you seen that one archy? In the shanty towns in some african states they basically nick power by lashing up a harness to feed current down to there dwelling (hut). I think they just aim well and sling it over the power cable and tap to the earth wire (SWER)....and there off.........

Think you'll find that's in India, and around the Indian sub-continent!! They don't get too many electrical supplies in African shanty towns ...lol!!!