Suggestions please

[lewlec]

Hi

this sounds like it could be a nice job
i agree with lenny on the mccb panel board with a 500ma or 1amp time delay as an incommer using structural steel of the building as your earth, usually get a good reading off this.
Then feeding sub boards with 300ma td incommers being its an agricultural install. Also would feed each individual robot via 30ma rcd/rcbo because if a fault appears on 1 of these units you dont want too loose the others. As for lighting without seeing the set up its difficult to say but we normally use high frequency fluorescent fittings

hope this is of use
regards
gary

 

[Guest123]

Sorry Lenny, missed your post before.
Agreed with the concept of panel board immediately downstream of origin, altho i was thinking Schneider meself - tho i do like Eaton`s stuff too. Had tried to consider all options inc. standalone insulated adjustable RCCB / busbar chamber / Quadbreak / MCB board /suddenly remembering i have to go on holiday next week & so on, but keep coming back to same concern - an amp or more of earth leakage whilst runnning just half the farm. Whilst that clearly needs addressing, time constraints are such i`m not confident they`ll be sorted adaquately in time - hence the requirement to split the load ASAP.
Panelboard can achieve that, but that takes me down the road of 500mA incomer, 300mA outgoing to satisfy both DNO`s & Bs7671 requirements - as i`m seeing it. Otherwise i`d be looking at adjustable type (very, very tempting!) With 100/30mA devices further downstream that also raises the question of discrimination...do i make the 500mA or 300mA S-type? and by rights at least one or other should be 4p, just to add to the spec requirement of 200a+. Thought how i could do without the RCCB incomer, use a vanilla switch disconnector instead, but that raises the spectre of earth fault protection lacking upto outgoing RCCB`s - don`t know of any double insulated, 200a rated panels
Already warned client the switchgear will have to be MCCB`s and thus pricy, so thats accepted (begrudgingly) but am attempting to keep this on the right side of silly money, but not too sucessful thus far...at the very least one MCCB panel at intake, additional switchgear other side of GenSet (assuming existing ATS can stay) + new switchgear in old dairy, IP rated DB outside new dairy, panelboard & contactors inside, as well as giving him the bad news his grainstore could blow up any minute
He`s gonna love me I`m sure he thought an MK Split Load Consumer would do it all.
Oh well...
Do appreciate your thoughts on it tho bud - starting to get that uncomfortable feelin` earlier

Sounds like you could throw thousands at this one and still come up short......it's the biggest problem with most jobs......where do you stop??

Just try and break it all up....start at the start with main incommers first so as to get DNO on side and then a section at a time.

 

[nickblake]

i think the best way forward on this one is has been suggested , chose the switch gear you want to use and ring them direct and see if it can be designed for you , that way the head ach of the designe are off you back , but as time scale is the thing you could start but installing an i line board for the distribution and then work from their section at a time ,but like youve said ,farmers always have a new tractor but the electrics are well the ones ive seen are well scary

 

[mogga]

I was thinking exactly what Nick said Brand spanking 50K tractor Implaments and a luverly range rover along with the beat up defender and electrics from the arc expecting the electrical system to cope with the demands of a £100kstate of the atr robotic electronic thinggymajig wondering why it trips the fuse when used Bet he argues that you could put this here n that there n dont need that expensive bit of kit quoting Jimmy( another farmer) says You dont need all that stuff

 

[electricAl]

Thanks for all your thoughts fellas.
Have to admit i`ve drifted further & further from my original viewpoint of keeping the cost as low as poss - ultimately it`ll cost what it`ll cost, & dairy downtime could make these amounts look small if the job is compromised too much.
My first thoughts of protecting against nuisance tripping led me towards the Merlin Vigi adjustables, but explaining to the farmer the complexities & costs involved drew a predictable response...
So having exhausted pretty much all other avenues i`ve ended up full circle, back to an VELS at the origin.
Will tap up Scneider to see if `A man` can come out & quote, but am in little doubt thats where we`ll end up - stuff the cost. And Mogga, you`re a little way out with your guess mate - each robot costs more than that i`ve reckoned after a little checking this afternoon. And there`s 4 of em. Pity their aftersales tech guys give such little info away.

Gary, very interested in your usage of HF Fluorescents in preference over Hi/Low bays. Farmer had received a quote for 24 off IP56 LowBay style fluory`s each kitted out with 4 single enders rated 220w in total. Supply only cost was £6900+VAT which ended his interest. Same quantity of decent quality IP65 Hi Bays unlikely to top £2k, & to be fair he`s been told he`ll be paying the same for his 140kva supply whether he uses it all or not - be interested to verify this with EON.

As to the use of steel structure as earthing, its unfortunate that its not at source - yet to confirm the validity of main rod within GenSet building. Looks a bit better than the rod in my earlier post tho. But the steel structure of new dairy will have to be bonded, as with everything conductive within it, so will actually become the most effective earthing point in the whole install no doubt.

Will hopefully obtain some definate answers tomorrow, and will post back. Thanks to you all for your input.

 

[lewlec]

hi electricAl

just wondering how you getting on with this job?

regards
gary

 

[Knobhead]

Come on how goes it?

I’ve always done heavy industrial work (quarrying & steel) but I’ve been following this thread out of interest, so totally different to what I’m used to.

Having lived in a small farming community I know what they’re like, I’d get asked to do the odd “foreigner”. Usually I’d manage to wriggle out of doing them, but I got roped in a few times. My usual ploy would be give them a list of items required and the numbers of the wholesalers and leave them to haggle over the price. My fee was on top!

 

[DurhamSparky]

BBC News - Fire breaks out at dairy farm in Pikehall

(ignore the date) hahahaha!!


only kidding!!

 

[Knobhead]

Good job your in Durham otherwise I would get upset, you wouldn’t know about the hamlet of Pikehall in Derbyshire.

 

[DurhamSparky]

drove through it on my way to get some cable earlier in the year!