Twin and earth in pipe...

[Dustydazzler]

I have popped this in the video section but thought it might make an interesting debate

Handyman Chris has fitted some nice pvc pipe for his cable but rather than use conventional singles has pulled in twin and earth. Which seems odd when you have gone to the effort of fitting conduit pipe why pull in twin and earth.
If you are going to use twin and earth might as well just surface clip it imo

Thoughts

 

[andyb]

He explains, cost, I agree with him. I do the same on a small job where I'm not buying the cable specifically for that job.
You couldn't surface clip that job Dusty with the cable runs low down, and it would be nowhere near as neat.

 

[Dustydazzler]

No but you could have clipped at higher level and just dropped down in short bits of tube to the outlets.

 

[andyb]

No but you could have clipped at higher level and just dropped down in short bits of tube to the outlets.

Could of done Dusty but he says he run it low at the clients request.
For what it's worth, I'd have run high up if allowed but still used conduit and t&e unless I already had the singles.

 

[Andy78]

He's made a right meal of that. I don't mind dropping twin and earth down a straight piece of conduit where it is used solely for impact protection but sod routing it through an entire conduit system, that's just stupid. He says the reason is that a drum of singles costs him £30-35 so he's going the cheap route. I reckon he needs to have a word with his wholesaler if those are his prices.
I'm not sure of the construction of the workshop but my preferred method would have been to run the conduit behind the wooden cladding, obviously I don't know if he had this opportunity though.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I have had jobs like that where ideally would have just run my twin and earth behind the cladding.
But got there after it was up.
Seems a massive waste of pvc pipe to go all along the low level like that.
It’s a neat job but a massive waste and expense on material.
Just loop over the rafters and drop down in 3ft bits of tube

 

[richy3333]

He's made a right meal of that. I don't mind dropping twin and earth down a straight piece of conduit where it is used solely for impact protection but sod routing it through an entire conduit system, that's just stupid. He says the reason is that a drum of singles costs him £30-35 so he's going the cheap route. I reckon he needs to have a word with his wholesaler if those are his prices.
I'm not sure of the construction of the workshop but my preferred method would have been to run the conduit behind the wooden cladding, obviously I don't know if he had this opportunity though.

According to his own videos he buys his stuff at Screwfix and Toolstation.

Poor design, but then I dont think he has had a proper electrical education based upon other stuff I've seen in his videos.

 

[Andy78]

According to his own videos he buys his stuff at Screwfix and Toolstation.

Poor design, but then I dont think he has had a proper electrical education based upon other stuff I've seen in his videos.

At both those places a 100m drum of 2.5mm singles is less than £20 inc vat.

I think you're right, he doesn't seem to have much experience.

 

[Dustydazzler]

According to his own videos he buys his stuff at Screwfix and Toolstation.

Poor design, but then I dont think he has had a proper electrical education based upon other stuff I've seen in his videos.

I believe he is a plumber by trade

 

[Lister1987]

I believe he is a plumber by trade

Ouch, do you have evidence to back such an damaging assault on the poor man's character? ?

 

[davesparks]

Im not convinced that low level PVC pipe is suitable for a workshop enviroment, I'd want to see steel conduit for mechanical strength.

 

[westward10]

Why you would faff about trying to get T&E around those elbows (I noticed bending tube is beyond him) and then have to strip it and sleeve the cpcs pointless waste of time. Use singles who cares about the price difference.

 

[lozarus]

It's a bit excessive, but each to their own. My preferred method is using 50x50 trunking around the top of the workshop, with straight conduit drops to each socket/switch. I have no problem using T&E in this setting (it's quite easy, neat and no need to clip it and yes - cheaper). But sod bending it through all those elbows. Plastic/galv is likely use dependant. In my garage I used plastic drops. It's far hardier than clipped direct, and also, I know I'm not going to turn open flames on the wall/swing engines around from the hoist into the conduit etc etc. Above said, I don't believe there's any capacities stated for T&E in round conduit mind...

 

[richy3333]

Unless he's banned Chris will be along on here soon to give us all his wisdom, I sure.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Didn’t he call us all a bunch of old woman Or something...
Hardly worthy of a ban

 

[richy3333]

@Dustydazzler I'm not saying he was banned but some rant of a post about me was removed. Anyhow, I like my feline side

 

[hasel5]

Yep different and stunned

 

[Kidsolo]

That is without doubt the ugliest wiring job I have ever seen. What is going to happen when you want to put a bench along one of those walls? you are going to have a 20mm gap between the bench and the wall.
Most of the outlets are up high, the logical and neatest way would be to go over the top and drop down the cavity of the wall. that way all wiring is hidden. you would only have the ones under the windows and the heater outlet that required conduit, but I would pop a sheet of plywood off the wall to run those wires. there is no reason why all those wires couldn't be hidden behind the walls.

There is a huge difference between a tradesman and a handyman.

 

[KennyKen]

At least he showed willing, Unlike another Youtube Nagy wannabe - N Bundy who uses Copex with saddles. Chris even mentions this at the start of the Vid.

A workshop I would of done in a Steel conduit. Depending on equipment maybe even previsions on Stop buttons and DOL starters.

 

[Kidsolo]

A workshop I would of done in a Steel conduit.

Let's be serious. There are perfectly good wall cavities there, why would you use any conduit at all? Conduit doesn't only look terrible, it is going to derate the cable.
Be professional and put the cables where they belong.... out of sight.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Every time I have costed up a domestic garage / shed / workspace for using metal conduit every time it comes out too expensive for the homeowners.
The best I can then offer it normally pvc conduit or mini trunking

 

[Andy78]

Let's be serious. There are perfectly good wall cavities there, why would you use any conduit at all? Conduit doesn't only look terrible, it is going to derate the cable.
Be professional and put the cables where they belong.... out of sight.

There's lots of celotox sheet kicking about so i would think that would be behind the cladding. That's likely to derate the cable anyway if recessed, whether in conduit or not.

 

[Kidsolo]

There's lots of celotox sheet kicking about so i would think that would be behind the cladding.

Regardless of the insulation, the cable should have been run before the sheets were nailed on. Any qualified electrician that has pride in his work and likes to see the job done right, would never run all that conduit when the finished job is easier, quicker and looks so much better by hiding the cables.

You don't seriously think all this conduit looks good?

 

[Koipin]

It would have been a lot neater if it was all hidden behind the boarding.
Hindsight is fantastic though...

 

[Andy78]

Regardless of the insulation, the cable should have been run before the sheets were nailed on. Any qualified electrician that has pride in his work and likes to see the job done right, would never run all that conduit when the finished job is easier, quicker and looks so much better by hiding the cables.

You don't seriously think all this conduit looks good?

Like I said earlier in the thread, my preferred method would be installed behind the cladding, I agree with that totally. I was just picking up the point about derating, which in this case would neither here nor there.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Conduit run horizontally looks a bit naff at the best of times. If it were my shed I would have run the cable around up in the rafters and dropped down in short bits of conduit just for the drops.
I might have even been tempted to use galv for the drops if money and time were aplenty...

 

[Lister1987]

Stupid question, how do we know this wasn't just what the client wanted?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Stupid question, how do we know this wasn't just what the client wanted?

A homeowner specifically asking for 20mm drops and 25mm horizontal runs ? I doubt it very much....

 

[Lister1987]

I meant surface run in conduit, but I suspect if that was the case they would asked for it in galv.

 

[Simon47]

Yuck
Aesthetically, the way he's gone up to one socket then across to the next looks naff. I' have either put a tee box centrally between the two sockets or had two vertical runs.
And as for the way the in and out at the light switch don't line up, that's just offensive
But then we see the outside connections - WTF !
Why didn't he cut the hole in the back of the box before fitting it, and then use an adapter and bush to fit the conduit properly to the back of it ? And he might have considered doing the back of the socket so as not to completely compromise the ingress protection of the socket
There's more, but I think that's enough.

 

[richy3333]

I’ve just endure part 2. There’s so much that’s wrong and highlights imho that this guy has had proper training and knows what he’s talking about. Regrettably the public will watch this and use it as a guide to wire up a shed ?
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Sorry, just got to run back to tool station to buy some more tat!

 

[Cid]

Stop knocking toolstation and screwfix. They are really handy for most small bits and pieces. The wholesalers are not always within easy reach or have everything in stock!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Part 2 - [Warning it’s blooming long winded]...

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Stop knocking toolstation and screwfix. They are really handy for most small bits and pieces. The wholesalers are not always within easy reach or have everything in stock!

Love s bit of screwfix and toolstation

The Led bulbs I have in my house were on sale at screwfix for 99p each and not one failure in 3.5 years thus far...

 

[Kidsolo]

Even thou it is only a garage, it still looks terrible. What if the owner eventually turns it into a man cave or something similar.

Doing an amateurish job and trying to convince everyone via youtube that you are doing the job of a professional is just being a snakeoil salesman.

 

[pirate]

Maybe two nuts on threaded end of earth rod, nut driver in impact driver?

Dusk to dawn sensor...maybe some round black cable to fit the gland properly and prevent UV degradation?

Lighting...so much cable and plastic conduit...maybe quinetic switches to save cabling to switch drops?

 

[richy3333]

@Cid why can’t we (or I) knock TS or SF? Do you have shares in them ?

I’m guessing for the majority of the country wholesalers and these DIY outlets are very close to each other.

If TS and/or SF are proper wholesalers how come they don’t sell Hager products. And in the context of the video why don’t they sell Marshall Tufftex conduit?

It looks (to me) very amateurish that the chap in the video had to keep nipping off to buy stuff (poor planning and preparation) and then returns laden with carrier bags; particularly in the context of the ‘rough as a badgers’ ar&e job he did with numerous electrical theory and practical application mistakes.

But that’s just my 2cents...

 

[Cid]

I think people are jumping the gun. In jobs like this the cable routing would have been agreed with the customer beforehand. Perhaps they want to hang stuff above the sockets?

 

[KennyKen]

Let's be serious. There are perfectly good wall cavities there, why would you use any conduit at all? Conduit doesn't only look terrible, it is going to derate the cable.
Be professional and put the cables where they belong.... out of sight.

I forgot you Aussies can’t do steel conduit.

Like someone else said Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If the shed was a carcass then great... no conduits. Professional Job. Hooray

What would be your suggestions in that situation? Catenary wire?

 

[Dustydazzler]

What do they use for surface wiring in Australia ?
In other parts of the world they use metal flexibility conduit or thin walled metal ridged tubing for example...

 

[KennyKen]

Plastic conduit. Different diameter thicknesses, Different colour depending on application. Orange underground. Grey power, white for comms.

Catenary wires, Cable tray etc for other applications.

Steel Conduit for heavy industrial although most of the time it’s stop start.

Plastic enclosures....Unless your doing EEHA junction boxes

 

[Simon47]

Stop knocking toolstation and screwfix. They are really handy for most small bits and pieces.

I agree. Open longer & at weekends. Stock some stuff that wholesalers don't - but don't stock other stuff that wholesalers do. Order online to reserve stock for pickup.
Don't get me wrong, I use wholesalers for most stuff, but SF & TS are useful to have around.
Earlier in the year I needed some specialist screws - self drilling and galved for decking. By far the easiest and cheapest place to get them was TS. I also didn't need to over-buy as I knew that worst case would mean day or two for local (to job) TS to get them in (actually had them in stock). That was also long way from home so didn't know who the local wholesalers were.

 

[davesparks]

Let's be serious. There are perfectly good wall cavities there, why would you use any conduit at all? Conduit doesn't only look terrible, it is going to derate the cable.
Be professional and put the cables where they belong.... out of sight.

Well installed conduit doesn't look terrible, and the effect on cable rating is normally minimal, less than the effect of being in contact with insulation in the wall.

In a workshop having surface conduit means there are no hidden cables to be damaged when anything I fixed to the walls and it makes alteration nice an easy

 

[Robson689]

Maybe two nuts on threaded end of earth rod, nut driver in impact driver?

Dusk to dawn sensor...maybe some round black cable to fit the gland properly and prevent UV degradation?

Lighting...so much cable and plastic conduit...maybe quinetic switches to save cabling to switch drops?

Can't beat a 20lb sledge for the occasional rod installer... Baffles me how many YouTube people you see putting them in with a little claw hammer