Washingmachine+tumbledryer In Zone 2

[acvc]

Been to a house today for a few things. The owners are making structural changes, including adding a shower room and an extension to the back.

The easiest option looks like keeping all the ground floor sockets on one ring.

BUT! They are telling me that they are going to have a wachine-machine with tumble drier on top, in the shower room, around 500mm from the shower cubicle from - what they're telling me.

I've told them the Regs and the zoning restrictions, but they are having none of it. They want the appliances there, with the flex for each taken through the wall to be plugged in outside the shower room.

Do I walk away from the job? Or is there something I can put on the EIC 'departures from BS7671'? Would this be acceptable.

Thanks in advance peeps.

 

[hotXbun]

I can think of 2 answers

Suggest they let you run in the electrics for the washing machine and tumble drier before they put in the shower ... that way you can do the paperwork before the plumber comes in and does his bit

Alternatively, recommend they install integrated washing machine and tumble drier then you just have to make sure it watertight - am assuming vent hole can be located far enough away? And to be real cool and get a bit more money, suggest you put in a forced ventilation to the unit ducted out to the exterior ..... ooh, I hear lovely money .... need any help?

 

[Darkwood]

Stick to your guns the fact you know its going to have a shower and ignorance dosnt work in most liability courts, tell them they will require I.P. rated washer and dryer, if they can locate such a thing, also explain the humid moist air will penetrate the control knobs, buttons putting them at great risk when they use them.
If this dosnt work refuse flat saying my job is to install a safe electrical system if you want to put your family at danger you will have to get a cowboy in.

 

[Guest123]

Stick to your guns the fact you know its going to have a shower and ignorance dosnt work in most liability courts, tell them they will require I.P. rated washer and dryer, if they can locate such a thing, also explain the humid moist air will penetrate the control knobs, buttons putting them at great risk when they use them.
If this dosnt work refuse flat saying my job is to install a safe electrical system if you want to put your family at danger you will have to get a cowboy in.

Absolutely!!

NICEIC pocket guide to bathroom zoning.

http://www.willetttechnicalservices.co.uk/bathroomzones.pdf

 

[hotXbun]

Absolutely!!

NICEIC pocket guide to bathroom zoning.

http://www.willetttechnicalservices.co.uk/bathroomzones.pdf

ROFL .... sorry, but this is not so much a pocket guide as a guide to being practical and putting money in your pocket!

I assumed it was obvious that my first suggestion was tongue in cheek... was it not? But my alternative idea of putting the appliances in a dedicated housing is perfectly acceptable and keeps within the regulations. As long as the housing is made waterproof AND ventilation provided, I see know reason why it can't be done.

Regulations are there to assist, not to prevent

 

[Guest123]

I assumed it was obvious that my first suggestion was tongue in cheek... was it not?

twas.



These people dont sound like the types to be building waterproof housings for their appliances though???

 

[Darkwood]

ROFL .... sorry, but this is not so much a pocket guide as a guide to being practical and putting money in your pocket!

I assumed it was obvious that my first suggestion was tongue in cheek... was it not? But my alternative idea of putting the appliances in a dedicated housing is perfectly acceptable and keeps within the regulations. As long as the housing is made waterproof AND ventilation provided, I see know reason why it can't be done.

Regulations are there to assist, not to prevent

With respect i have no objection with your method but telling the customer hes got to build a IP rated cupboard then to ventilate it to is a bit far fetched as i must assume its a temp' set up while the renovations are on-going.
I would only contemplate suggesting your method in commercial or industrial but not in a house, plus dont forget your cupboard will have to be fire rated too, adding to an already expensive solution.
I do realise its tongue in cheek but at least it shows an inventive mind.

 

[acvc]

I'm not sure what to do here.

I am with you Darkwood and do feel like I should stick to my guns or walk away. But,

What's confusing me is: although they're telling me that they intend to put the appliances in the shower room, it's not going to be me who puts the appliances in there. I'll be putting in a socket outside the shower room only. Does the fact that I know what they're going to plug in to the socket mean that I shouldn't install the socket?

Once I've done the work, is it still my responsibility for what they connect to the circuit, given that I have made it very clear to them what the should/shouldn't do?

 

[hotXbun]

Hmmm, well yes, I suppose it is a bit beyond the norm but then I'm forgetting we just talking electrics. I would normally expect to be discussing the ins-and-outs with the customer and I do happen to think that an IPX4 rating would be achievable given that the fixed appliances (permanently connected or connected externally) could easily be installed within a housing.

I suppose the only difference is that unlike a water pump or a shower heater, the appliances are rated for the area they are housed and in the case of the pump, it will normally be behind a panel. So, the question is one of would the housing be likely to be opened whilst someone having a shower? Bearing in mind that we are only talking of an overlap or infringement of 100mm, I assume the room will not be large enough to move the housing so another thing - is it possible to have a deeper full height panel adjacent to the shower cubicle such that the effective zone is 600mm - ie , a panel of 900mm depth (with the housing unit brought forward to be flush if sufficient room) would faithfully keep a 600 zone requirement ..... but then, maybe I'm doing to much work.

If you just doing the electrics then I suppose it difficult to get enthusiastic.

Anyway, "best of luck!"

 

[adam.h]

if your just installing a socket and it meets regs then you have done your job. You have already explained that putting them in the shower room is not a good idea.
Would it be any different if you wired in a new socked in a back room for the customer to then plug in an extension lead to run up the garden to power some fairy lights which are not ip rated?
Or if they used a hair drier or laptop plung in whilst in the bath?

 

[timb]

Sorry if I'm being a wally here but surely you cannot put a new socket with 3m of the edge of zone 1. The socket you are talking about is well within this distance and so no socket is allowed.

 

[adam.h]

but the sockets will be in another room so to speak so it's outside the zone.

 

[Des 56]

Sorry if I'm being a wally here but surely you cannot put a new socket with 3m of the edge of zone 1. The socket you are talking about is well within this distance and so no socket is allowed.

A socket no,but a switched fused spur with a flex outlet can, as long as it is outside 600mm from the shower edge

Table 8.1 suggests that the fixed equipment needs no IP protection if in an outside zone,so if you can pinch that extra 100mm all well and good