Wylex wooden back db

[graham123]

Eicr code 2? Thoughts

 

[Silly Sausage]

Eicr code 2? Thoughts

Is it charred or showing signs of spontaneously combusting?

No Code, it's been sat there perfectly alright for the last 100 years!

 

[graham123]

Does it not condition in terms of fire rating?

 

[Plonker 3]

Have you thought maybe doing EICRs isnt for you?

 

[a1guvner]

Ive heard its ok if its white oak coated in danish oil.

 

[graham123]

What makes you say that Dillb?. I'm only asking for other peoples opinions as you we'll know with eicr it's down to the person who is conducting the testing to make any recommendation. IMO wylex wooden back box db does constitue a fire hazard. Therefore potential danger under an overload in the board or fault. So C2

 

[telectrix]

and what's the wylex fastened to? a wooden or weetabix board? that's also just as great a fire risk.

 

[Andy78]

What makes you say that Dillb?. I'm only asking for other peoples opinions as you we'll know with eicr it's down to the person who is conducting the testing to make any recommendation. IMO wylex wooden back box db does constitue a fire hazard. Therefore potential danger under an overload in the board or fault. So C2

There is little or no danger of the wood used in these boards combusting under a fault condition.
It's a no code in my book as it poses no greater risk than it did when installed and if undamaged, is perfectly serviceable for use.
If you must code it, it's a C3 at most.

 

[dan86]

No code for me. Can't see how you can justify it

 

[telectrix]

you can always justify a code C3 as "improvement recommended". a lot of these boards have the fuse cover missing, so that could even be a code C2 due to the fact that live parts are not protected to IP4X

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I think it's an interesting point and worth discussing.

I think a C2 is way over the top though (unless there are signs of thermal damage), I wouldn't even put a C3 simply because it is a recognised CU and has been perfectly acceptable for many years as Archy says. But... part of form 7 does mention about the type of enclosure with regards a fire hazard (haven't got the form to hand) and wood is certainly combustible!!

 

[Andy78]

you can always justify a code C3 as "improvement recommended". a lot of these boards have the fuse cover missing, so that could even be a code C2 due to the fact that live parts are not protected to IP4X

As far as I know Tel it's only the horizontal top surface of any enclosure that has to be IP4X. Any other surface requires only protection of IP2X/standard finger from live parts.

 

[telectrix]

i always thought it was top and front.

 

[Andy78]

No code for me. Can't see how you can justify it

I don't either as I cannot think of a reg to support it, which is necessary for a coded observation

I think it's an interesting point and worth discussing.

I think a C2 is way over the top though (unless there are signs of thermal damage), I wouldn't even put a C3 simply because it is a recognised CU and has been perfectly acceptable for many years as Archy says. But... part of form 7 does mention about the type of enclosure with regards a fire hazard (haven't got the form to hand) and wood is certainly combustible!!

There is a section which relates to adequacy of fire barriers/sealing. Not all EICR forms are made equal though....... I'm working from the model form.

 

[Andy78]

i always thought it was top and front.

It probably should be. Section 416 states IPXXB or IP2X for enclosures or barriers protecting live parts, and the only mention of IP4X is the top surfaces of enclosures.

 

[theguz]

these consumer units came with a non combustable back plate very thin paxalene.if this is fitted there is no fire risk

 

[Flanders]

Never come across a wooden CU with any fire damaged even the ones were the fuses have blown multiple times, just a bit of black on the fuse holder, as for the plastic ones, I have seen some of them melted , so No code for wooden back CU , could fail for other reasons like no RCD protection or kit kat wrapper used as fuse wire :stooge_curly:

 

[ayjay]

ive seen them with the mainswitch melted/cracked due to the tails being loose also the brass screws holding the femail contact on the bottom bar come loose causing the fuse to overheat and fall apart

 

[Flanders]

ive seen them with the mainswitch melted/cracked due to the tails being loose also the brass screws holding the femail contact on the bottom bar come loose causing the fuse to overheat and fall apart

Bet the wood was still intact though

 

[nickblake]

code 3 unless its full of wood worm as lots are ,

 

[dingledong]

I think there is a post on here where some one tried to burn one with no success

 

[dingledong]

I think there is another post on here where someone tried to burn one of these without success

 

[telectrix]

funny how echoes distort the words.

 

[Silly Sausage]

funny how echoes distort the words.

........

 

[Guest77]

C1 for me lmao

 

[Guest111]

Ever heard the old saying "if it aint broke don't fix it"?

 

[davesparks]

What makes you say that Dillb?. I'm only asking for other peoples opinions as you we'll know with eicr it's down to the person who is conducting the testing to make any recommendation. IMO wylex wooden back box db does constitue a fire hazard. Therefore potential danger under an overload in the board or fault. So C2

Next time you take one out have a go at setting fire to the wooden frame. I've had a go at one with a decent mapp gas torch and it wouldn't catch!

For that matter try getting any dense hardwood to catch fire without some serious prolonged application of heat.

In the same vein in a building fire an oak beam will outlast an equivalent RSJ.

 

[7029 dave]

No code IMO.

 

[robwgun]

Most people who fitted these years chucked away the back plate, and this obviously affects the fire rating of the Wylex Db.


However even if this back plate is missing; if it's not mounted on a fire rated wall then no code.

 

[davesparks]

Most people who fitted these years chucked away the back plate, and this obviously affects the fire rating of the Wylex Db.
.

How does that affect the fire rating? The flammability of the wood doesn't change when a bit of Paxolin is put next to it!

 

[robwgun]

The wood isn't a issue for me, if the board was mounted on a plasterboard 30 min fire rated wall with all the back missing I would code 2 it on inadequate fire rating (but equally any board should be coded if the back is missing on a fire rated wall)

 

[Guest77]

It is a no code for me, or a 3 at worse, I would be more concerned with the OCPDs and whether they are up to the job protecting modern appliances and circuits rather than what the board is made of, I expect it is fine, it has been there for 30+ years working pretty well, why bother replacing it and making a big deal over it? unless there is something else you have forgot to mention?

 

[robsparky1975]

I have one fitted in my house,never had a problem,no coding from me,has 30ma protection for the board as fitted years ago,I might just change it one of these rainy days if I really dont have anything better to do.

 

[davesparks]

The wood isn't a issue for me, if the board was mounted on a plasterboard 30 min fire rated wall with all the back missing I would code 2 it on inadequate fire rating (but equally any board should be coded if the back is missing on a fire rated wall)

If it is mounted on a fire rated wall then why would being open backed be a problem ? You certainly can't give a C2 for that.
The regulations specifically allow fire rated building materials to form part of an electrical enclosure!

 

[robwgun]

I will correct myself , if the back was missing, with a massive hole into the plasterboard,with cables passing into the back of the board (on a fire rated wall), this would be deemed a code 2, (or corrected with fire foam)

 

[davesparks]

Intermittent foam?

I hope you don't mean expanding foam? That stuff shouldn't be allowed near cables!

 

[robwgun]

Well it's the quick fix solution that gets used, and is fire rated

 

[Silly Sausage]

The wood isn't a issue for me, if the board was mounted on a plasterboard 30 min fire rated wall with all the back missing I would code 2 it on inadequate fire rating (but equally any board should be coded if the back is missing on a fire rated wall)

Do you fully understand what a C2 means or have the ability to use reasoning when to apply one?

From BGB...
C2 (“Potentially dangerous”), the safety of those using the installation
may be at risk and it is recommended that a competent person undertakes the necessary remedial work as
a matter of urgency.

A wooden backed CU, showing no signs of damage, that's been in existance for probably longer than most people on here...... do I need to carry on?!

Common sense.

 

[davesparks]

Well it's the quick fix solution that gets used, and is fire rated

But do you check how it will affect the cables before applying it to them? It is thermally insulating after all so affects their current carrying capacity,

 

[robwgun]

I can't find expanding foam on the reference method list .

Ok so davesparks, you turn up to do a EICR, to a new build terraced house, with a fuseboard mounted on a fire rated plasterboard wall between properties, some rough b****** has hacked the back of the board out and you could physically reach into the wall with your fist, what would you code it?

My NICEIC area guy has said he deems this a code 2 ( I believe 3 is more appropriate ).....

How far do you go to correct it?, they said foam is acceptable.....putting a metal back box behind board is overkill, on a old installation anyway......

 

[Silly Sausage]

My NICEIC area guy has said he deems this a code 2

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

[robwgun]

My NICEIC area guy has said he deems this a code 2

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

I know, he reckons anything fire rating related is 2....

 

[trev]

I can't find expanding foam on the reference method list .

Ok so davesparks, you turn up to do a EICR, to a new build terraced house, with a fuseboard mounted on a fire rated plasterboard wall between properties, some rough b****** has hacked the back of the board out and you could physically reach into the wall with your fist, what would you code it?

My NICEIC area guy has said he deems this a code 2 ( I believe 3 is more appropriate ).....

How far do you go to correct it?, they said foam is acceptable.....putting a metal back box behind board is overkill, on a old installation anyway......

Hang on, you said it was a new build at first.
Why would you be doing an EICR on a newbuild?
Why would said newbuild have a stud work wall between it and the next door property?
It's not necessarily RAF to remove sections of the back of the CU, how else are you planning on getting the cables concealed on the way to it?
It's pretty difficult to get your fist through an open CU in my experience.
Filler foam won't be on the reference method list but are the regs an exhaustive list of every situation we find ourselves in?
Isn't a metal back box full of holes? So what additional fire rating is it going to provide? You may as well shove a colander behind it.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I know, he reckons anything fire rating related is 2....

Did you give him a good grilling why?
I'd want to know his reasoning.

 

[Andy78]

I know, he reckons anything fire rating related is 2....

Could also be where the OP got his ideas about this issue from... his local friendly misinformation clerk.

 

[telectrix]

if i were the CEO of a company making expanding foam, i'd rename it builders' bodge. should boost sales.

 

[Silly Sausage]

if i were the CEO of a company making expanding foam, i'd rename it builders' bodge. should boost sales.

Tubes of Caulk though, fantastic stuff for them irratating wee gaps.

 

[dingledong]

If there is a hole in the wall behind the cu it's mechanically protected by the front of the cu and put your hand through the hole in the wall then more than likely you'll touch a brick wall or more plasterboard

 

[Knobhead]

I think there is a post on here where some one tried to burn one with no success

It was me, it survived over an hour on a coal fire.

As for the stupid statement about woodworm…………

 

[Engineer54]

Wylex never made a wooden backed CU to my knowledge, wooden framed CU's on the other hand they made literally millions of them. Never seen a new Wylex wooden framed CU with a paxoline or any other back to them straight out of the box.

I'll warrant that those old wooden Wylex CU's will hold up against fire/heat far, far longer than any Plastic modern CU. The wood used in those CU's was a pressure treated hard wood, and i don't know of anyone including myself that has seen one go up in flames, that would require the house to go up in flames first!! ....Oh and i've never seen a wooden framed Wylex CU affected by woodworm either...