House rewire lighting circuit

[Chrisknowlesuk]

Im relatively freshly qualified and registered so still coming up against new challenges.

I have a client who has requested a rewire but they also want minimum damage to flooring etc. Hopefully loft access means I can get to first floor lighting cables but ground floor ceiling lighting could be tricky.

Provided testing on current cabling comes within correct values is it okay to reuse??

Also, whilst sticking with safe zones is it acceptable to chase around corners, I presume as my chasing tool won't get right into the corners a chisel will have to do the tight spot?

As a side note, install has every variety of back box surface mounted even with big fat finger holes, L/N reversed, sockets with no Earth, trailing cables in front of doors no main earth supply - otherwise its perfect!!!

 

[Pete999]

A difficult job then, I would suggest you tell your client he needs a EICR prior to any rewire, with the state if the wiring that you have mentioned, a complete rewire is required not just the lighting, is the bonding OK? what about RCD protection as you are chasing in all the cabling?

 

[westward10]

From what you describe it don't sound great. It would be difficult to say from a distance whether the existing lighting cables are okay, you need to test it and give it a thorough inspection but if the power circuits are how you describe, the lighting may well be the same.

 

[GMES]

As others have said get the test gear out first and do a full periodic. It may end up being a full rewire but equally if a few results come back good you could save the customer a few shillings.
If you're new to periodic testing which it sound like you may be it might be an idea to enlist the help of an experienced Tester.
Good luck either way.

 

[7029 dave]

If new cable needs to be provided, so be it, we can not magic them in.If he knew the wiring was in such a state?,why finish the decoration.?

 

[Midwest]

The customer seems to have made the strategic decision to have a 'rewire', probably based on a visual inspection and the age of the property, one assumes you've come to the same decision on the same basis. Unless you are going to do the EICR for free, why waste £200 of the customers money, when they want it 'rewired'?

If you going to 'rewire', then it's floors up or ceilings down. If I was paying for a 'rewire', I would not want any of the old cables used, unless they were very recent additions.

 

[7029 dave]

The customer seems to have made the strategic decision to have a 'rewire', probably based on a visual inspection and the age of the property, one assumes you've come to the same decision on the same basis. Unless you are going to do the EICR for free, why waste £200 of the customers money, when they want it 'rewired'?

If you going to 'rewire', then it's floors up or ceilings down. If I was paying for a 'rewire', I would not want any of the old cables used, unless they were very recent additions.

Absolutely, the customer will have to way up the cost, either floor up, or ceilings, maybe not all down, negotiating joist runs switch drops etc, it can be done, but time will have to be spent to minimize damage , which means more labour time.

 

[Midwest]

You could always use those new fangled Wi-Fi sockets

 

[westward10]

From my experience if the power is that bad the lighting is probably worse.

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

Thanks for all the advice.

The plan was to do a complete rewire from the CCU upwards. There doesn't even seem to be a supply earth so power distributor coming out to rectify that then energy supplier fitting a main isolater switch before I begin.

I was going to suggest to the client that I could surface trunk cables to lighting roses if they really don't want any flooring or ceiling disturbed but that seems like a poor finish in my book.

Photo shows current fuseboard and supply etc. Far right of picture has a small terminal with three earth leads - one to fuseboard, one to bonding and one really long one that attaches to a water pipe, but nothing from supply.

Fortunately, the property isn't being lived in. I've advised the client of all the current failings with photos.

 

[westward10]

I have only used trunking where access to the cavity above the ceiling is not possible, in your case it is.

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

I have only used trunking where access to the cavity above the ceiling is not possible, in your case it is.

There is a loft hatch on the first floor but I've not gone up to check access. My main problem is they don't want the floor on the first floor removed.

 

[Andy78]

There is a loft hatch on the first floor but I've not gone up to check access. My main problem is they don't want the floor on the first floor removed.

What flooring is down that they don't want lifting ?

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

What flooring is down that they don't want lifting ?

Its all fairly new laminated flooring by the looks.

 

[Andy78]

Ugh. Make sure they are aware of the significant increase in cost and time due to the floor not being able to be lifted to facilitate the rewire, as well as the increased plastering needed to repair chased walls.

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

Ugh. Make sure they are aware of the significant increase in cost and time due to the floor not being able to be lifted to facilitate the rewire, as well as the increased plastering needed to repair chased walls.

Definately... I'm guessing the chance of being able to pull through the old cables through where the ceiling rose is will probably be a complete no hope...

 

[westward10]

Ah that's a problem. Tell them laminate is old hat.

 

[westward10]

Definately... I'm guessing the chance of being able to pull through the old cables through where the ceiling rose is will probably be a complete no hope...

If you manage to pull them through buy a Lottery ticket, I wouldn't even try.

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

If you manage to pull them through buy a Lottery ticket, I wouldn't even try.

Yeah, I figured as much... I'm going to make sure they are fully aware of whats involved. And explained what chasing is I suppose.

Its the first time I've used this forum and it has proven very helpful. Thanks all..

 

[westward10]

No worries.

 

[Midwest]

That laminate looks carp, starting to blow already. Have your clients any ideas of what a 'rewire' entails? Trying to pull cables via the ceiling rose hole is one thing, how are you going to do the switch drops, sockets etc without having some of the floor or ceiling down?

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

I tried to persuade them to go surface with trunking, I think they may be renting it.

I may show them photos of what chased walls look like.

If I chase up from the switches what is the best way to bring the cables out to trunk along the ceiling? Would a sunken flex outlet box with the cable troubled along the ceiling meet with Regs? Not the best looking solution but if I can access above ceilings or below floors.

 

[Leesparkykent]

What about suggesting having coving put up. you could clip the cables round or use bases and ties as there be within the 150mm zone where the wall/ceiling meet. could cut holes to fish cable across to light position which will all be covered by the coving. A bit of faffing about but achievable just leaves the chases for the switch drops.

 

[westward10]

You could use architrave trunking, keep the switches surface and bring the trunking up beside the door frames. It is in inevitable that the trunking will cross the ceiling to the lighting point. How are you doing the power on the ground floor.

 

[7029 dave]

You could use architrave trunking, keep the switches surface and bring the trunking up beside the door frames. It is in inevitable that the trunking will cross the ceiling to the lighting point. How are you doing the power on the ground floor.[/QUOTE]
Hopefully floor boards (accessible)

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

By architrave trunking do you mean like the D-line curved stuff? Not a bad idea. How do I go from trunking to ceiling. I was thinking perhaps a slotted disc of mdf or is there a product for this?

As for power I think I'm alright with that. Incoming supply is in basement so I was planning on bringing up behind the skirting then chasing up to first socket and horizontally to others.

For ground floor power circuit of two rooms and hallway so 5 dbl and 1 sngl socket I was hoping a radial would do?

 

[Leesparkykent]

By architrave trunking do you mean like the D-line curved stuff? Not a bad idea. How do I go from trunking to ceiling. I was thinking perhaps a slotted disc of mdf or is there a product for this?

As for power I think I'm alright with that. Incoming supply is in basement so I was planning on bringing up behind the skirting then chasing up to first socket and horizontally to others.

For ground floor power circuit of two rooms and hallway so 5 dbl and 1 sngl socket I was hoping a radial would do?

Ceiling Rose Base Adaptor for MT1 + MT2 Trunking | QVS Electrical Wholesalers - http://www.qvsdirect.com/ceiling-rose-base-adaptor-for-mt1-mt2-trunking

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

Ceiling Rose Base Adaptor for MT1 + MT2 Trunking | QVS Electrical Wholesalers - http://www.qvsdirect.com/ceiling-rose-base-adaptor-for-mt1-mt2-trunking

Perfect. Thank you.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Perfect. Thank you.

Remember if your going to use trunking across the ceiling you may have to use D line clips, elsie fixings or a similar product within the trunking if it forms part of an escape route.

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

Remember if your going to use trunking across the ceiling you may have to use D line clips, elsie fixings or a similar product within the trunking if it forms part of an escape route.

Thank you. I will beat that in mind.

Am I right in saying that as part of a rewire I also need to include smoke, heat and CO2 detectors. And these should be on a separate circuit?

 

[telectrix]

you don't have to fit these detectors, but it's good practice to do so. they can be on their own circuit or on a frequently used lighting circuit, your choice.

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

It randomly has a small fuse box on the first floor serving the upstairs lighst and sockets. I'm guessing it used to be a HMO house.

 

[Midwest]

I think they may be renting it.
QUOTE]

If they are, have you checked with the landlord?

 

[Midwest]

Not having luck with replying with quotes! In case it's not obvious; If they are renting, have you checked with the landlord?

 

[GMES]

Not having luck with replying with quotes! In case it's not obvious; If they are renting, have you checked with the landlord?

Are you clicking reply or quote mate, cause I am sure if you hit reply it comes back the way your's did but if you hit quote and insert quote it comes back like this one.

 

[Wilko]

Are you clicking reply or quote mate, cause I am sure if you hit reply it comes back the way your's did but if you hit quote and insert quote it comes back like this one.

I just hit reply and type

 

[GMES]

Are you clicking reply or quote mate, cause I am sure if you hit reply it comes back the way your's did but if you hit quote and insert quote it comes back like this one.

I've just replied to mine.

 

[GMES]

Ok so we've just proven you need to hit quote instead of reply, another happy customer and it's not even 9am.

 

[Midwest]

I just hit reply and type

This is reply

 

[Midwest]

This is quote Hang on, I ain't got 'Quote' just '+Quote'

 

[GMES]

This is reply

This is quote Hang on, I ain't got 'Quote' just '+Quote'

Yeah sorry Mid, You hit +quote then hit insert quote under the text box which then opens a box with your quotes in and hit insert these quotes.

 

[GMES]

Public announcement!!
No boxes were injured during all that hitting of boxes

 

[Midwest]

Yeah sorry Mid, You hit +quote then hit insert quote under the text box which then opens a box with your quotes in and hit insert these quotes.

Cheers. Blooming fudgy fingers

 

[Diddy]

Mini Trunking across the ceiling....yuk lol. Why can't you mini trunk to ceiling and then fish across ceiling ? Consider feeding switches and taking SW+N from Switch to fitting.....Or even a 3 core in the event you need a feed at light for say a fan connection or to tap off for smoke detectors or whatever. Even if you are super unlucky and the route from switch to light is across the joists you can cut out ceiling at each joist drill joists using angle drill and stumpy wood bit feed cables through and then repair ceiling. Repairing ceiling wont be too hard - Just replace each nicely cut out piece of ceiling back where it was with some little pieces of 2"x1" wooden noggins above to screw the pieces back in place. a bit of finishing plaster, rub it down after it dries - bit more plaster, rub it down again.....Job done - ceilings would need repainted by A N Other.....As above adjust your quote to reflect the extra time for patching and filling.

 

[Chrisknowlesuk]

Mini Trunking across the ceiling....yuk lol. Why can't you mini trunk to ceiling and then fish across ceiling ? Consider feeding switches and taking SW+N from Switch to fitting.....Or even a 3 core in the event you need a feed at light for say a fan connection or to tap off for smoke detectors or whatever. Even if you are super unlucky and the route from switch to light is across the joists you can cut out ceiling at each joist drill joists using angle drill and stumpy wood bit feed cables through and then repair ceiling. Repairing ceiling wont be too hard - Just replace each nicely cut out piece of ceiling back where it was with some little pieces of 2"x1" wooden noggins above to screw the pieces back in place. a bit of finishing plaster, rub it down after it dries - bit more plaster, rub it down again.....Job done - ceilings would need repainted by A N Other.....As above adjust your quote to reflect the extra time for patching and filling.

Good idea to feed switches. You're right the mini trunking across ceiling isn't ideal. Its an awkward job. I'm not confident in my finishing skills if I try and fish across the ceiling and make good any holes. I've advised the customer that there will be decorative damage and that they need to arrange someone else to redecorate. Most walls are textured paper that is painted on top

 

[Octopus]

Sounds like the client has some set ideas so best communicate any changes by email to avoid issues down the line.....