Interesting talk with DNO engineer

[Deleted member 105166]

that assumes the supplier has more than 1 meter on the street or in the area.

Would have been easier in the good old days when everyone bought their leccy from the same supplier.
The DNO would ideally need accurate and timely information from a whole host of energy suppliers and unless they were paying the energy suppliers for this, what's in it for the energy company?

 

[Zerax]

Agreee with that,
But that assumes the supplier has more than 1 meter on the street or in the area.

I suspect it's done with "exception reporting". So every day/week/month there's a standard set of reports run from the smart meter data. Anything that is not 'normal' should show up. Like, say, a list of meters with a power failure within the same part postcode where the number is = 1; Or... any meters showing a usage drop of >50%

It's up to them if they investigate these or not...

 

[davesparks]

s, what's in it for the energy company?

They get possible theft of electricity investigated by the DNO for them for free,
[automerge]1568798337[/automerge]

Agreee with that,
But that assumes the supplier has more than 1 meter on the street or in the area.

Not necessarily, if the DNO is getting the power outage report from all smart meters automatically then it won't matter who the energy supplier is.

 

[Deleted member 105166]

They get possible theft of electricity investigated by the DNO for them for free,

Good point Dave, I like your thinking.

 

[Taylortwocities]

SSE used to fit self connect meters with the integral isolator but Im not sure if they still do

These days new meter = smart meter. The original spec for SMs included an integral isolator, but of course it was ditched as a cost saving matter.
Meters are a matter for the supplier, not the DNO. and SSE aren't in retail any more!

SSE sale of retail business to Ovo creates new UK energy giant

The transfer of 3.5 million SSE customers will make Ovo the UK's second largest energy firm.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Shoei]

Exactly what offence or civil enforcement acts will you be committing, for these companies to issue ‘fines’?

It's probably covered by the National Terms of Connection (pdf) This is the contractual basis for most UK supplies and in section 10 it explains that you can't tinker with the supplier's kit, and you pay expenses for putting it right if you do. 'Expenses' for a DNO might look like a fine but as you imply, they have no authority to issue fines, although they can disconnect the supply if reasonable (in their opinion) costs aren't paid.

 

[Midwest]

As far as I’m aware, there’s just the offence of abstraction of electricity under the Theft Act. But pulling fuses or cutting seals, would not complete that offence.

 

[Shoei]

As far as I’m aware, there’s just the offence of abstraction of electricity under the Theft Act. But pulling fuses or cutting seals, would not complete that offence.

That's true in criminal law but the DNO has remedies and obligations under the 'Terms of Connection' contract. Acceptance of the contract is a condition of supply so if a seal is cut (say) the end user is obliged to pay the DNO's expenses to put it right.

 

[Carl S]

Forty years ago all I got from a NWEB engineer was “you don’t believe in seals then?” They were there for a major fault on their system so my little transgression was overlooked.

A few years later I phoned them about dual fuel heating and got talking to the same guy. Supply up rated for free and a wads of information and help.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

They could be the Hepworth/Sicame ones.

Yep, there again today. Is a hepworth kit to make a new tns earth from lead incoming sheath.

 

[Simon47]

Exactly what offence or civil enforcement acts will you be committing, for these companies to issue ‘fines’?

To start with, breach of supply contract - the "thou shalt not interfere with the supplier's or DNO's equipment" clause.
Then there's presymably a breach of ESQCR regs.
And breach of Electricity at Work regs.

 

[Midwest]

To start with, breach of supply contract - the "thou shalt not interfere with the supplier's or DNO's equipment" clause.
Then there's presymably a breach of ESQCR regs.
And breach of Electricity at Work regs.

The first one, is just a breach of a business contract. They may decline to offer you their products. They can’t fine you, and (as far as I’m aware), you do not commit a criminal offence at this stage, by interfering with their equipment.

Not about the later; one could argue that you would also be breaching these acts, by not making safe.

 

[Simon47]

As previously said, they can charge for "regularising" any interference with their equipment. And for most users, such a bill would look very much like a "fine".
Besides, Midwest asked what civil or criminal offences might be committed. The breach of contract would be a civil tort - and most people don't know the difference between a tort and an offence.

 

[DPG]

Hands up you're Googling the word 'tort'

There's an Irish joke in their somewhere.

 

[Andy78]

Hands up you're Googling the word 'tort'

 

[Midwest]

Hands up you're Googling the word 'tort'

There's an Irish joke in their somewhere.

I had to. I tort I saw a ----- cat

 

[Chivers]

I work as a Maintenance Electrician on Highways (not street lighting). I won't go into great detail but we have cabinets with DNO fuses and a meter then normally a two pole isolator. I've been doing this role for almost two years, We were transferred / Tuped across to another firm who tendered for the contract. One of the guys who has far more Network testing experience than me (though doesn't have 2391), was insisting a number of months ago that we needed to pull the DNO fuse (cutting seals) to get a true ZE and determine the Fuse rating. Up until then I'd been Testing ZE at the closest point to the meter with Earth removed to test towards the supply and noting the Fuse rating of the carrier (most are sealed anyway), generally the Earth is 16mm or 25mm and is two feet long so of negligible resistance. He still keeps insisting we remove fuses despite being told by hierarchy we should Not do this.

Who's right in this instance? We do have G39 BTW

 

[ipf]

Don't know what this thread is doing in 'Electrical Engineering Chat' ???

 

[static zap]

Hands up you're Googling the word 'tort'

There's an Irish joke in their somewhere.

Is that to do with the merry dance it will lead you.
(without a legal reference --Spoon will be along soon)

 

[GeorgeCooke]

It sounds like you've got things a lot better sorted out in Ireland,

But he actually lives in the UK. Place called Londonderry near the Irish border.