Discuss Covid Shielding and Rewire. in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Nitram

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My Friend has an ex council house (owned privately) that has recently been tested by the Local council ( its on a council estate that all the other properties have been identified as needing refurbishment.) The electrical installation is approx 40 years old and has been identified as out of date (not condemned) by the councils electrical report (which he does not have). The council are trying to force him to rewire although his mother is shielding. Can they do this legally?
 
I'm presuming your mates mum is living in the house?
If the house is owned privately then I'd go with NO, they can't do this legally.
I'd ask for a copy of the electrical report.
 
I'm presuming your mates mum is living in the house?
If the house is owned privately then I'd go with NO, they can't do this legally.
I'd ask for a copy of the electrical report.
She does live there yes - and I suggested he should obtain a copy of the report asap.
 
She does live there yes - and I suggested he should obtain a copy of the report asap.

If he gets the report and is unsure of it then just post it up on here and we can all have a look at it.
Blank out any names/addresses/private info.
 
If he gets the report and is unsure of it then just post it up on here and we can all have a look at it.
Blank out any names/addresses/private info.
Under what circumstances would the council be able to force a shielding private owner to rewire their own home? It makes no sense to me.. I'll post the report if he can get it for clarification - but my feeling is that unless condemned it is only out of date - not dangerous.... I dont imagine the council have those powers..
 
Under what circumstances would the council be able to force a shielding private owner to rewire their own home? It makes no sense to me.. I'll post the report if he can get it for clarification - but my feeling is that unless condemned it is only out of date - not dangerous.... I dont imagine the council have those powers..

I'm not sure to be honest mate. Seeing that the house was bought from the council I don't quite understand why they still think that it has anything to do with them now.
I'd be interested to see what tests were actually done to the property and how long the was the person in the house to do the tests.
 
The only possible situation I could imagine is if it is deemed a fire risk and so puts others in a block of flats at risk. But that would be unusual for a 40 your old install, though maybe not for 60+ years if it had perished VIR type wire I guess.

As above, if they are pressing for this they have to give a VERY good reason and that has to start with the EICR report.
 
They are threatening legal action if he does not allow access to rewire - and no they are not going to pay for it.... Thanks for your replies - I will post the report when (if) he can get it. But from what I can find on the interweb they are not allowed to do this....
Its a 3 bed detached - and council are aware its privately owned.... as Strima said so eloquently "Private property has sod all to do with the council."
 
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They are threatening legal action if he does not allow access to rewire - and no they are not going to pay for it.... Thanks for your replies - I will post the report when (if) he can get it. But from what I can find on the interweb they are not allowed to do this....

Get your mate to tell the council that he want's a copy of the report and that the house is owned privately. If it needs rewiring your mate will choose an electrician, after getting a few quotes.
The council can't force their electrician on you....

Out of curiosity, what size house is it and how much do they want from your friend for the rewire?
 
Get your mate to tell the council that he want's a copy of the report and that the house is owned privately. If it needs rewiring your mate will choose an electrician, after getting a few quotes.
The council can't force their electrician on you....

Out of curiosity, what size house is it and how much do they want from your friend for the rewire?
3 bed - not sure hes away at the moment - I will ask him and follow up here in a while..... Thanks
 
Makes me wonder if the council have no involvement, and that this is a chancer wanting to rip him off.
No its definitely the council - he has a solicitor checking legalities.. I am just trying to save him some hassle as the solicitor is obviously not doing this for free. I'm hoping that someone here can definitively say - No the council can't force entry to a shielded household.... for a rewire!
 
Unless there was some kind of clause in the purchase I can't see how it is any of their business in fact you could argue if they had no business doing it then it was trespass.
 
It may be just a marketing thing...
“All the council houses are being rewired by us, and we can offer to do yours for £Xx as we’re in the area”


There is no way the council can enter a property for any reason, even one of their own, without permission from the homeowner or tenant.
 
It may be just a marketing thing...
“All the council houses are being rewired by us, and we can offer to do yours for £Xx as we’re in the area”


There is no way the council can enter a property for any reason, even one of their own, without permission from the homeowner or tenant.
No its not a marketing thing - I dont think its good marketing to threaten legal action to drum up business... My mate has responded - He is going to request the report from the council and take it from there - tomorrow - so thanks for your responses - I'll be back....
 
Methinks there must be more to the story here. Privately owned = clue is in the name.
 
Methinks there must be more to the story here. Privately owned = clue is in the name.
Exactly the reason I have started this post - it makes no sense. Regardless of the rewire I'm pretty sure no one can force a private owner to carry out any work in the home - especially when shielding...
 
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The Council is in Liverpool and they did contract out the testing.... I assume - unless they have their own teams - but thats not really the point... can they force a private (shielded) owner to rewire the house is the question ... and from a number of the above responses the answer is most definitely a big fat NO
 
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Pardon the pun ! But I think there must be some crossed wires in the council department ! Personally I would go down to the council office and demand to speak to whoever said this rubbish and get it sorted.
I feel there has been a mix up somewhere along the lines of communication and they still have this dwelling logged as belonging to them.
 
Pardon the pun ! But I think there must be some crossed wires in the council department ! Personally I would go down to the council office and demand to speak to whoever said this rubbish and get it sorted.
I feel there has been a mix up somewhere along the lines of communication and they still have this dwelling logged as belonging to them.
I hope it is something along those lines - will know more tomorrow.... thanks
 
Is there a lease involved somewhere perhaps? Rather like blocks of flats that end up being charged jointly for replacing a roof?

Even that is different to the individual wiring of a house, so I cannot see how they have any legal right to force a rewire on someone and make them pay for it. Is it a terrace that adjoins other council properties?

Given the shielding at the moment and the rise of rates in the North West, it would seem ridiculous for anything other than essential work to be going on in anyone's home - and a 40 year old installation is not likely to be degraded to the point of immediate danger - there must be millions of houses out there with 80s wiring or older that are perfectly safe.
 
Is there a lease involved somewhere perhaps? Rather like blocks of flats that end up being charged jointly for replacing a roof?

Even that is different to the individual wiring of a house, so I cannot see how they have any legal right to force a rewire on someone and make them pay for it. Is it a terrace that adjoins other council properties?

Given the shielding at the moment and the rise of rates in the North West, it would seem ridiculous for anything other than essential work to be going on in anyone's home - and a 40 year old installation is not likely to be degraded to the point of immediate danger - there must be millions of houses out there with 80s wiring or older that are perfectly safe.
No there is no lease question or issues with adjoining properties ... and yes its ridiculous.. the council told him that because all the council properties are being done he must do his - sounds like utter -------- to me..
He is going to get further details (and request the EICR) tomorrow so can only hope he gets the information he needs and perhaps some resolution.. As one of the responses above put it .. if he wants a rewire he can do so himself (using a qualified contractor of course) - its got FA to do with the council.
 
There are sometimes clauses in property sales, especially if it is leasehold not freehold property.
however I cant see how they could force this upon an owner unless one of the following applies.

If the owner is renting the property out there can be action against him (the landlord) for not repairing electrical faults in a timely manor.

if it is a property in a block, such as a block of flats, where a fire or other electrical fault could make others escape routes or property at risk.

If it was purchased on one of the schemes where property is sold off cheep with a requirement to bring it up to a certain standard within a certain time frame.

I would advise to keep all communication in writing, either by post or email. (if an email is not replied to, follow up by printing it and sending in post)

it is easy to get passed from pillar to post with large organisations, especially councils and other government departments, if you are trying to deal with it over the phone.

also, i would not be spending money on solicitors at this point, hold your ground.

make it clear that you are not preventing them access to one of there properties, they are asking for permission to enter your own property and permission will not be granted at this time or in the near future.

if they still want to pursue it, they will send you a summons to court.
This document will have to outline the case they have against you and what law they are using to force entry.

this will give you the info required to have it thrown out of court (assuming there are no caveats in the house sale documents)
p.s. the courts are unlikely to force entry to a property containing a vulnerable person for non essential work when it is against government guidance for them to be interacting with people. even if they had a strong case.
 
In my experience I can't believe the council at some point have not upgraded this property with a new DB etc when it was owned by them Etc Etc.
There pretty proactive on that so seems strange to me
 
There are sometimes clauses in property sales, especially if it is leasehold not freehold property.
however I cant see how they could force this upon an owner unless one of the following applies.

If the owner is renting the property out there can be action against him (the landlord) for not repairing electrical faults in a timely manor.

if it is a property in a block, such as a block of flats, where a fire or other electrical fault could make others escape routes or property at risk.

If it was purchased on one of the schemes where property is sold off cheep with a requirement to bring it up to a certain standard within a certain time frame.

I would advise to keep all communication in writing, either by post or email. (if an email is not replied to, follow up by printing it and sending in post)

it is easy to get passed from pillar to post with large organisations, especially councils and other government departments, if you are trying to deal with it over the phone.

also, i would not be spending money on solicitors at this point, hold your ground.

make it clear that you are not preventing them access to one of there properties, they are asking for permission to enter your own property and permission will not be granted at this time or in the near future.

if they still want to pursue it, they will send you a summons to court.
This document will have to outline the case they have against you and what law they are using to force entry.

this will give you the info required to have it thrown out of court (assuming there are no caveats in the house sale documents)
p.s. the courts are unlikely to force entry to a property containing a vulnerable person for non essential work when it is against government guidance for them to be interacting with people. even if they had a strong case.
None of the above ifs apply..... get it in writing - good idea - and I advised the same in regard to having it thrown out of court ... appreciate all of your responses - will follow up tomorrow when we have more info....
 
Spidy senses tingling here.
I am acting on behalf of a friend and therefore cannot be completely accurate with my responses .. he is monitoring this but is a little busy with Mum at the minute - he has read these posts and will give me more info tomorrow. The initial question , I reckon has been answered - A private owner must grant permission to enter the household to carry out works and the council cannot force this ... As I said a while ago - I will have more to go on tomorrow.... and again thanks all for your input..
 
My Friend has an ex council house (owned privately) that has recently been tested by the Local council ( its on a council estate that all the other properties have been identified as needing refurbishment.) The electrical installation is approx 40 years old and has been identified as out of date (not condemned) by the councils electrical report (which he does not have). The council are trying to force him to rewire although his mother is shielding. Can they do this legally?

In my opinion and I’m not an expert , They would need to issue the relevant report stating that it failed the inspection and quote the fault with the appropriate fault code. If the code was the highest fail ( too in save to allow continuing without fixing) then ....

the experts on this site might give you the code for “needs refurbishment” and an idea of the time scale to do any work required.

The only reason that may need some work ( not a rewire) is if the fuse box is a wylex model that is made from wood and is now illegal ( in case of fire!)
who asked for the inspection - was it an insurance company? and who allowed them access to the property?

sounds like you should get an independent check.
 
In my opinion and I’m not an expert , They would need to issue the relevant report stating that it failed the inspection and quote the fault with the appropriate fault code. If the code was the highest fail ( too in save to allow continuing without fixing) then ....

the experts on this site might give you the code for “needs refurbishment” and an idea of the time scale to do any work required.

The only reason that may need some work ( not a rewire) is if the fuse box is a wylex model that is made from wood and is now illegal ( in case of fire!)
who asked for the inspection - was it an insurance company? and who allowed them access to the property?

sounds like you should get an independent check.
I dont think the test was an issue it was more the councils threat of legal action that is disturbing... and I believe illegal... more info coming tomorrow - flogging a dead horse now it seems to me
 
So 40 years old means no Rcd Protection
Lighting would have CPCs and be in Twin an earth and metric
Rings would have 1.00 mm CPC
And normally done to high standard
Agree that you need to get the EICR and go form there but cannot see they have any say over your property
 
So 40 years old means no Rcd Protection
Lighting would have CPCs and be in Twin an earth and metric
Rings would have 1.00 mm CPC
And normally done to high standard
Agree that you need to get the EICR and go form there but cannot see they have any say over your property
Yeah - thanks - there is no argument that the property needs upgrading - to current req. but that is down to the owner - not some nork at the council threatening legal action. More details tomorrow
 
In my opinion and I’m not an expert , They would need to issue the relevant report stating that it failed the inspection and quote the fault with the appropriate fault code. If the code was the highest fail ( too in save to allow continuing without fixing) then ....

the experts on this site might give you the code for “needs refurbishment” and an idea of the time scale to do any work required.

The only reason that may need some work ( not a rewire) is if the fuse box is a wylex model that is made from wood and is now illegal ( in case of fire!)
who asked for the inspection - was it an insurance company? and who allowed them access to the property?

sounds like you should get an independent check.
a wooden fuse board IS NOT illegal.
it is not up to current standards. this doesn't mean it cant be used.

we do not prevent a ford model T or a Jaguar E type from being allowed on the road because they don't have things that weren't invented when they were made.
ABS
Seatbelts
Airbags
 
Just an afterthought.

if the lady is shielding there is a possibility that she may be in care of social services or the like. They may then believe that they have a duty of care which might extend to this but that should have been made clear.
 
Just an afterthought.

if the lady is shielding there is a possibility that she may be in care of social services or the like. They may then believe that they have a duty of care which might extend to this but that should have been made clear.
Good shout - will mention that to him.....
 
In the present circumstances, if some are shielding in a house, I wouldn't think, even if it was a council property, anyone would be able to force a full rewire.
 
The only reason that may need some work ( not a rewire) is if the fuse box is a wylex model that is made from wood and is now illegal ( in case of fire!)

Have I missed something? Where does it state that wood CU's are 'illegal'?

BS7671 states "Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading."
 
Have the council or their representative had access to the property to carry out an "Domestic Electrical Installation Condition Report" (EICR) that is the only way they can verify the condition of the electrics in the house, if no one has been in already some chancer is trying it on, I suggest a threat of legal action for harassment may send them packing, or make an appointment to see them and ask your local community police officer to be present.
 
Have the council or their representative had access to the property to carry out an "Domestic Electrical Installation Condition Report" (EICR) that is the only way they can verify the condition of the electrics in the house, if no one has been in already some chancer is trying it on, I suggest a threat of legal action for harassment may send them packing, or make an appointment to see them and ask your local community police officer to be present.
Yes access for the council operatives was granted and EICR carried out before covid lockdown... no chancers involved - my mate is chasing up the EICR as we speak - I will post any other relevant info asap ....
FYI I am a sparky so understand regs... (mostly..)
 
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I have a sneaking suspicion that your "friend" has not actually purchased the property at all... he's just told you that. He's sub-let the property to his mother... which may explain why he's told you and his mother that it's not council owned anymore.

This would be the most logical explanation, nothing else makes any sense.
 

Reply to Covid Shielding and Rewire. in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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