UK Wasting electricity with electric cars?

[Bob Geldoff1234]

So over the past few years we have seen the demise of 8 foot fluorescent tubes,50 watt halogen bulbs,500 watt floodlights and making tv standby power even more tiny.
This seems to pale into insignificance when electric cars are needing at least 7kw for 8 hours.
Now I don't know about you but when I'm in the shower for 10 minutes I'm thinking this is costing me a bit at 8.5 kw.So to leave 7kw on for 8 hours is madness.It makes a joke of all the energy savings over the past few years.What do you guys think?

​

 

[Dustydazzler]

Isn’t the entire drive toward electric motors about air pollution and absolutely nothing about energy consumption

 

[pirate]

I have to say that recently I was of the view that if we all went to electric vehicles we wouldn't have enough electricity, and also, in some locations, the supply just isn't hefty enough as it stands. Then I watched this from John ward, which, although a bit lengthy, is quire revealing in many ways.

 

[OnlQQker]

I've thought about this as well quite a bit.

Electric cars are better for the environment but i'm just not that sure the nuclear reactors and fossil fuels producing it are that eco friendly.

I drive past Hinkley Point a few times a year and often contemplate this vast nuclear power plant whilst enjoying a leg of salmon in the local pub.

 

[pirate]

As JW will show you, the remaining nuclear facilities will be out of use in a few years, and the use of wind power is steadily increasing, being augmented by gas "on demand".
The leg of salmon is brilliant!

 

[Moley]

Yo Pirate, we need those nukes!!
Going a bit off topic here. Wind power is increasing BUT, like solar, it's also not steady. A drop in wind here, clouds there and output drops. Look what happened last year (was it last year?) when Little Barford CCGT came offline just as a big wind farm (can't remember which) tripped out. There was a major blackout. To try and compensate for these sudden drops in production there are at least two sites that I have worked at that are converting old closed CCGT sites into 'flywheels'. Basically the turbines are being replaced by huge flywheels. When everything is running these sites consume electricity, the generators acting as motors spinning these flywheels. If there's a sudden drop in wind or solar then they change arround, the flywheel turning the generator and put power onto the grid. We never needed that with coal.
As for salmon, I do enjoy a nice bit of smoked salmon or a nice chunk of salmon wrapped in foil with some butter, chucked in the oven then served with a fresh salad while looking out at Hinkley Point power station from my chalet at Dunster Beach near Minehead

Oh, and JW has got a really boring voice!

 

[Wilko]

On the JW vid, my takeaway (perhaps wrongly) was that in broad we have capacity for half folks to have EV at the generation level, but that says nothing about DNO level impacts. I understand DNO have estimated estates at a kW or two per household and in the Chancellor’s scenario sometime soon an increasing proportion will be pulling 7kW throughout the night. Hmmm.

 

[Rockingit]

What? You mean decades of under-funding in our basic infrastructure networks in favour of profits to shareholders are finally going to catch up and bite us on the arse?? I never would have seen that one coming........

 

[pc1966]

So to leave 7kw on for 8 hours is madness.It makes a joke of all the energy savings over the past few years.What do you guys think?

You have to compare that to the amount of petrol/diesel you would have used instead.

But as above, the issue of having the infrastructure to deliver on the EV promise is a tat lacking...

 

[Dustydazzler]

Having never owned an electric car , but how long would it hold a full charge for ...?

 

[Rockingit]

Also, it's 'fine' for suburbian estates and rural areas where houses have drives and places where you can actually install outdoor points (of whatever flavour) - go into the cities where it's row upon row of terraced house / apartments that exit straight onto busy streets and you're stuffed.

 

[telectrix]

Also, it's 'fine' for suburbian estates and rural areas where houses have drives and places where you can actually install outdoor points (of whatever flavour) - go into the cities where it's row upon row of terraced house / apartments that exit straight onto busy streets and you're stuffed.

esp if you're on the 12th floor of a tower block.

 

[pirate]

That's where those new cordless extension leads will come in handy

 

[Zerax]

Also, it's 'fine' for suburbian estates and rural areas where houses have drives and places where you can actually install outdoor points (of whatever flavour) - go into the cities where it's row upon row of terraced house / apartments that exit straight onto busy streets and you're stuffed.

They've already solved that one... with on-street chargers... https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/oct/05/electric-car-ways-to-charge

 

[stevethesparks]

Wait until the electric boilers kick in as well.
Another answer might be to have a standardised replaceable slide in battery system

 

[Zerax]

Having never owned an electric car , but how long would it hold a full charge for ...?

If you don't use it.. I'd guess at years... are you thinking of buying one and not using it ???

 

[Zerax]

Another answer might be to have a standardised replaceable slide in battery system

That's not needed anymore... fast charging would be almost as quick... and there are LTO chemistry cells now... that can charge in like 10 mins !... In any case... this whole range myth has now been largely busted.

 

[pc1966]

That's not needed anymore... fast charging would be almost as quick... and there are LTO chemistry cells now... that can charge in like 10 mins !... In any case... this whole range myth has now been largely busted.

It is not the range, it is the lack of charging for folk like myself in blocks of flats without designated parking places, etc.

A quick-change battery would allow a 5 min stop at a "petrol station" to get replenished, and also no worries about battery life/cost as that would be factored in to the cost of a "refuel".

Putting changers in lampposts is not going to be a great solution. Not just the cost to change cables, etc, but the percentage that can use them UK wide. Typically you can get 4 cars parked between posts but only 2 at most connected, and many streets have only posts on alternating sides, etc. It would cost far more to upgrade 10/20M lampposts UK-wide than to have 10k petrol stations upgraded.

 

[snowhead]

Another answer might be to have a standardised replaceable slide in battery system

They've got a drive through battery swop in China

 

[Rockingit]

They've already solved that one... with on-street chargers... https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/oct/05/electric-car-ways-to-charge

Not sure about that! The technology might exist, but the infrastructure still doesn't. Take the lampost idea, for example, that's roughly one point per every dozen cars down most streets. So that's 11 people unlucky and a fight about to break out. If the battle to find a parking space close to your home wasn't bad enough already, it's now been made twice as hard again. Also - who pay's for this??

Don't get me wrong - I'm ALL for striving towards zero carbon and pollution, I just don't think this is the way to do it. The sceptic in me just says this is yet another dodgy back-hander by the Govt.

Hydrogen cells - now THERE's an idea!

 

[Zerax]

It is not the range, it is the lack of charging for folk like myself in blocks of flats without designated parking places, etc.

A quick-change battery would allow a 5 min stop at a "petrol station" to get replenished, and also no worries about battery life/cost as that would be factored in to the cost of a "refuel".

Putting changers in lampposts is not going to be a great solution. Not just the cost to change cables, etc, but the percentage that can use them UK wide. Typically you can get 4 cars parked between posts but only 2 at most connected, and many streets have only posts on alternating sides, etc. It would cost far more to upgrade 10/20M lampposts UK-wide than to have 10k petrol stations upgraded.

I'm not saying that there are no charging issues everyone... of course, you'll always find examples of people that cannot use any of say 30 different options.... BUT... things are changing.... woefully slowly... but changing. In the future, they'll be solutions that we haven't even dreamt of yet...

 

[Zerax]

The sceptic in me just says this is yet another dodgy back-hander by the Govt.

Well... there's no doubt that the government are reacting to what the media (and hence the general public) demand... the media across the world are screaming about greenhouse gases, pollution and destroying the planet ! (quite why the same media support colonising (and then destroying) another planet (Mars) just shows how misguided they are) So the government are trying to please the media with the EV revolution.

Of course... there are going to be some shocks (no pun intended) ahead... like when EV owners get hit with taxes to make up for the loss of taxes on ICE vehicles.

 

[Wilko]

Hydrogen cells - now THERE's an idea!

I will have way tooo much fun with these

 

[Zerax]

Hydrogen cells - now THERE's an idea!

Agreed ! I think that's definitely part of a proper solution. The clue is that Elon Musk has totally rubbished the idea !

 

[OnlQQker]

Yo Pirate, we need those nukes!!
Going a bit off topic here. Wind power is increasing BUT, like solar, it's also not steady. A drop in wind here, clouds there and output drops. Look what happened last year (was it last year?) when Little Barford CCGT came offline just as a big wind farm (can't remember which) tripped out. There was a major blackout. To try and compensate for these sudden drops in production there are at least two sites that I have worked at that are converting old closed CCGT sites into 'flywheels'. Basically the turbines are being replaced by huge flywheels. When everything is running these sites consume electricity, the generators acting as motors spinning these flywheels. If there's a sudden drop in wind or solar then they change arround, the flywheel turning the generator and put power onto the grid. We never needed that with coal.
As for salmon, I do enjoy a nice bit of smoked salmon or a nice chunk of salmon wrapped in foil with some butter, chucked in the oven then served with a fresh salad while looking out at Hinkley Point power station from my chalet at Dunster Beach near Minehead

Oh, and JW has got a really boring voice!

The Dunster Christmas lights are something else aren't they?

I usually jump on the free bus from Minehead to Dunster to visit at Xmas.
My sister lives up the mountain end of Minehead, I've fell down that mountain many a time whilst trying to make my way back up it after consuming to much alcohol in The Old Ship Aground based below!

 

[Moley]

I haven't been down there yet. The site is in lock down so we can't get on. I'm hoping to get down to check things out next week. I can't even do the falling down bit on the bike. The most exciting ride I get these days is from Dunster beach along the seafront to Blueanchor and back

 

[snowhead]

Rockingit​

Take the lampost idea, for example, that's roughly one point per every dozen cars down most streets. Also - who pay's for this??

The Rent a roof P.V mob have now moved on to rent a lamp post, rent a piece of pavement and rent the right to install in private, public and supermarket car parks.
The electricity is paid for by the user presumably with a mark up.

 

[OnlQQker]

I haven't been down there yet. The site is in lock down so we can't get on. I'm hoping to get down to check things out next week. I can't even do the falling down bit on the bike. The most exciting ride I get these days is from Dunster beach along the seafront to Blueanchor and back

The other direction is very scenic, especially Porlock Weir and beyond. Minehead to Combe Martin - South West Coast Path

 

[plugsandsparks]

I think this is the way forward, solves all problems.

 

[Markyd]

So you live in the city,plug your car into a lampost and a load of stupid little ----s come along and unplug all the cars.....gonna happen

 

[pc1966]

So you live in the city,plug your car into a lampost and a load of stupid little ----s come along and unplug all the cars.....gonna happen

To be honest I'm surprised they are not cutting off the cable for scrap metal yet...

 

[Mike Johnson]

Don't know if this has been said before, but electric cars will bring about the death of the Caravan industry.

 

[nicebutdim]

Don't know if this has been said before, but electric cars will bring about the death of the Caravan industry.

Sold.

Where do I sign up?

?

 

[telectrix]

Don't know if this has been said before, but electric cars will bring about the death of the Caravan industry.

well that's a bonus then. no more queing behind a 20mph idiot with his shed on wheels.

 

[littlespark]

well that's a bonus then. no more queing behind a 20mph idiot with his shed on wheels.

I’m going to take that remark extremely personally!!!

At least it got wheels.... most of the cars down your way are propped up on bricks!

??

 

[Soi disant]

So to leave 7kw on for 8 hours is madness.It makes a joke of all the energy savings over the past few years.

You have to compare that to the amount of petrol/diesel you would have used instead.

the 56kWh which has Bob so exercised is the equivalent of 5.9l of petrol or 5.7l of diesel.

I wonder how far his car goes on that much fuel....

 

[Soi disant]

That's not needed anymore... fast charging would be almost as quick... and there are LTO chemistry cells now... that can charge in like 10 mins !... In any case... this whole range myth has now been largely busted.

Have you done the sums for how much electrical power would need to be provided to charging stations to sustain that rate of charging?

 

[telectrix]

apparently the powers that bee want gas removed from all houses. so why not use the left over gas to power cars? like not lpg conversion, but natural gas in a bag on top of the car. like back in the war?

 

[Soi disant]

Well... there's no doubt that the government are reacting to what the media (and hence the general public) demand... the media across the world are screaming about greenhouse gases, pollution and destroying the planet !

Please don't say that you don't believe in man-made climate change...

Of course... there are going to be some shocks (no pun intended) ahead... like when EV owners get hit with taxes to make up for the loss of taxes on ICE vehicles.

Or higher prices for "EV electricity".

 

[Soi disant]

View attachment 62600

He just needs a more powerful bike