UK *Totally Clueless* Powering a Street Food Trailer

[amykay]

Hello all of you lovely electric-minded folks,

I've read a few threads in the forums but none have explained what I'm looking to find out - probably because I'm at 10 on the stupid-scale of 1-10, so I apologise!

I'll keep it as simple as possible:

• I've got a teardrop camper which has mains hook up.
• I'm starting a mobile catering business which will mainly be at festivals and private hire.
• I'll be running a steamer (1200W) a warmer (1000W) a post-mix drinks system (not sure on watts but probably a lot?! includes cold plate and pump, as well as carbonator) and just some basic lighting.
• Most of the pitches I'll be looking to trade at have mains hook up included in the pitch fee.
• Despite lots of research and reading about generators and inverters and gas and mains and lots of other stuff, I'm just not getting it! I'm thinking I might have to go down the route of two smaller petrol generators, either as a backup or just so I can carry/transport them, as I've no chance with a big one, but any advice at all would be so so helpful and I'd really appreciate it (and you'd obviously get freebies for life!)

From what I can gather (may be completely wrong here...)
Inverter generator- pros: quiet, more eco friendly. cons: heavy, short run-time/can't power as much.
Petrol generator - pros: long run time/could potentially power all my equipment cons: heavy, expensive to run, loud, ginormous
Leisure Battery - pros: cheaper, quieter cons: wouldn't last 5 minutes

I'm really hoping there will be someone kind enough to give me a bit of a point in the right direction on how best to go about running my equipment...

Would it be possible to just run off the mains hook up? If so, what would I need in the way of equipment for this? Am I being completely daft? (please be nice!)

Also, I'd obviously be more than happy to get a professional in to do any electric-related work in relation to this, and get all of the required safety bits sorted so that I'm 100% legit, so looking for help with the above so I can take the necessary next steps!

 

[telectrix]

you need to work out your total load. can maybe be reduced soewhat to allow for not all on load at the same time. then that will give you an idea on the kW required.

 

[amykay]

you need to work out your total load. can maybe be reduced soewhat to allow for not all on load at the same time. then that will give you an idea on the kW required.

Thank you - yes I need to work out the total load, but if mains hookup is provided at the pitch site, would I be able to just use this instead of a generator? Sorry if this is super basic, I'm brand new to electrics and it's really confusing me!

 

[telectrix]

your mains hook up is usually 16A. that equates to 3.8kW.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

OK, we can sort this all out. I can't write much now but just to start with, re. your pros and cons of different power sources:

A 16 amp mains hookup will provide 3700W and probably power all your equipment. The running load of the drinks system won't be high, nor the lighting. It's always cooking/heating equipment that has the heavy load. Compressor fridges and drinks coolers have a high starting load (5-10 times the running load) which is a problem for small generators, but any generator large enough to power your cooking equipment will also start your coolers.


Generators can be petrol or diesel-fuelled, and inverter or non-inverter. The first relates to the mechanical end of the unit, the second relates to the electrical end.

Inverter generators are a more advanced technology, mainly used on petrol units, and provide a few benefits:

• Can run more quietly when demand is low. This is because the engine doesn't have to run at a constant speed, it can be set to slow down when it has less work to do. At full power demand it will run at full speed like a non-inverter type and make a similar amount of noise. The slow running mode is the only way they are more eco-friendly, again at full power demand they will use as much fuel and produce the same emissions as a non-inverter type.
• Output frequency and voltage are more stable - not usually a big deal unless you are running specialised electronics.

Diesel engines are normally used in the larger sizes. Often heaver, noisier and more expensive to buy, but lower running cost and typically longer-lasting under heavy use.

Run time depends only on the fuel tank size and power demand. Large units often have proportionally larger fuel tanks. Size and weight depend on power rating, there is a jump up as you go from suitcase-format petrol units to steel-framed diesels. Noise level, apart from the slow-speed function of inverter units, depends on quality of silencer and whether the unit is petrol or diesel.

You are correct about the leisure battery option. You would be looking at a dozen or more, actually using larger batteries altogether, and with the cost of the inverter, probably the most expensive, by far the biggest and heaviest option, but silent and clean. Powering cooking equipment from battery is not for the faint-hearted!

 

[amykay]

your mains hook up is usually 16A. that equates to 3.8kW.

I see - so assuming my total load is 6500w, I could use mains for some and use a smaller generator/leisure battery for the rest?

 

[amykay]

OK, we can sort this all out. I can't write much now but just to start with, re. your pros and cons of different power sources:

A 16 amp mains hookup will provide 3700W and probably power all your equipment. The running load of the drinks system won't be high, nor the lighting. It's always cooking/heating equipment that has the heavy load. Compressor fridges and drinks coolers have a high starting load (5-10 times the running load) which is a problem for small generators, but any generator large enough to power your cooking equipment will also start your coolers.


Generators can be petrol or diesel-fuelled, and inverter or non-inverter. The first relates to the mechanical end of the unit, the second relates to the electrical end.

Inverter generators are a more advanced technology, mainly used on petrol units, and provide a few benefits:

• Can run more quietly when demand is low. This is because the engine doesn't have to run at a constant speed, it can be set to slow down when it has less work to do. At full power demand it will run at full speed like a non-inverter type and make a similar amount of noise. The slow running mode is the only way they are more eco-friendly, again at full power demand they will use as much fuel and produce the same emissions as a non-inverter type.
• Output frequency and voltage are more stable - not usually a big deal unless you are running specialised electronics.

Diesel engines are normally used in the larger sizes. Often heaver, noisier and more expensive to buy, but lower running cost and typically longer-lasting under heavy use.

Run time depends only on the fuel tank size and power demand. Large units often have proportionally larger fuel tanks. Size and weight depend on power rating, there is a jump up as you go from suitcase-format petrol units to steel-framed diesels. Noise level, apart from the slow-speed function of inverter units, depends on quality of silencer and whether the unit is petrol or diesel.

You are correct about the leisure battery option. You would be looking at a dozen or more, actually using larger batteries altogether, and with the cost of the inverter, probably the most expensive, by far the biggest and heaviest option, but silent and clean. Powering cooking equipment from battery is not for the faint-hearted!

Oh my goodness thank you so much for this!! You're wonderful - this explains lots and gives me more to go off.

I was thinking of getting some solar panels and a battery for things like lighting as it'll be full days at summer festivals and the lighting would only be needed in the evenings.

Does the same rule apply with mains as it does with generators in that you should allow for 20% surplus for startup power, or does that not matter with mains hookup?

Thinking I'll go with most equipment on mains hookup, potentially sone off a generator if needed, and little bits like lighting on a solar/battery... does that sound sensible?

Again, thank you so much, I really appreciate your time and help!

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Normal mains supplies including your pitch hookup are much more forgiving of start-up surge loads than generators. If your entire demand was for drinks coolers then you would have to pay attention to this because of the starting current of the compressors. But actually your load is mainly heating elements which don't have a starting surge at all, so on mains you can ignore this, provided you are not cheating and using more constant load than your hookup strictly allows.

Add solar if it makes you feel clean and green but it won't contribute much to the overall scheme. If you had say five 100W solar panels, two 100Ah batteries and a controller you won't see much change out of £1000 but it will only knock 5-10% off your hookup power load. On a dull day not even that and you would end up charging the batteries off the hookup power which is worse than not using them at all. Plus you have to think about looking after the batteries, not leaving them discharged etc. Mobile, off-grid solar is great if you have minimal load overall and could manage without the hookup or genny, but small fry when you are cooking with electricity.

 

[brianmoooore]

Generators can be petrol or diesel-fuelled,

Or LPG (propane) powered.
Actually a slightly modified petrol generator, but with half the fuel costs, increased engine life, and a more mellow exhaust note.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Indeed. I actually have an LPG generator, don't know why I didn't think to mention it.