What is your hourly rate as a self employed electrician? (2023)

[oscar21]

Instead of an hourly rate some people charge by point, maybe £60 a point, if you do that and say you wire 6 downlights in a room with a 1 gang switch, would you charge for 6 or 7 points, similarly if you wired a spur controlling a single socket is that 1 or 2 points. Maybe even go as far as charging a switch out at £60 per switch so a 4 gang switch would cost £240 to install as opposed to £60 (or nothing if you include it with the installed lighting). What's the consensus on that one.

 

[oscar21]

The companies themselves are avoiding paying Income Tax and National Health contribution, holiday pay etc if found out the will end up in court, periodic checks are made of companies by HMRC.

A company I was consulting for had such a check together with other consultants, I was interviewed and only when I showed them the results of a VAT inspection and a list of my other clients was the investigation dropped.

This wasn't a problem back in the day though, when tories were tories they encouraged people to branch out and become successful, they wanted people to be self employed and get on in life. If that meant losing out on a bit of NI or tax then it didn't matter, people wanted to be their own boss and it suited everyone just fine.

Nowadays we have governments that are obsessed with blowing money left right and centre on vanity projects and they need the serfs to work themselves into an early grave to pay for it and one of those ways is to hound people into becoming an insignificant employee who has no other option other than to pay his dues.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Very strange view point, I don't know how old you are, but I am 75 and retired ten years ago, so my previous post was probably "back in the day"

 

[ipf]

Instead of an hourly rate some people charge by point, maybe £60 a point, if you do that and say you wire 6 downlights in a room with a 1 gang switch, would you charge for 6 or 7 points, similarly if you wired a spur controlling a single socket is that 1 or 2 points. Maybe even go as far as charging a switch out at £60 per switch so a 4 gang switch would cost £240 to install as opposed to £60 (or nothing if you include it with the installed lighting). What's the consensus on that one.

Per point is the general way of quoting for rewire, say. However, can't see how you would get away with that method for downlights in a room.
eg. Lighting, Price per 1way plus any extra lights at 'so much per unit'
Same for price per 2way.
Same for intermediate.
Power circuits just 'so much' per point
No way should you be charging one switch in room with 6 downlights as 6 'full' points.........unless you can get away with it, maybe.

 

[Risteard]

Per point is the general way of quoting for rewire, say. However, can't see how you would get away with that method for downlights in a room.
eg. Lighting, Price per 1way plus any extra lights at 'so much per unit'
Same for price per 2way.
Same for intermediate.
Power circuits just 'so much' per point
No way should you be charging one switch in room with 6 downlights as 6 'full' points.........unless you can get away with it, maybe.

If charging by points then each downlight/switch is a point. If people don't want to pay for 40 lighting points per room then maybe downlights aren't the answer!

 

[ipf]

If charging by points then each downlight/switch is a point. If people don't want to pay for 40 lighting points per room then maybe downlights aren't the answer!

I know what you're saying but I'm on about pricing for 6 downlights on one switch cct not 6 switch circuits and the wiring for 'em. It's not going to take as long to wire 6 in one room as 6 in 6 rooms

 

[Risteard]

I know what you're saying but I'm on about pricing for 6 downlights on one switch cct not 6 switch circuits and the wiring for 'em. It's not going to take as long to wire 6 in one room as 6 in 6 rooms

I find that measuring out downlights (to avoid joists etc.) can be extremely time consuming.

 

[LukeD]

Exactly ..On a new build type job its easy if exposed timbers .But you never know whats in the void on many jobs and Ive see a few come unstuck with a "rogue Nogging"

I find that measuring out downlights (to avoid joists etc.) can be extremely time consuming.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Per point pricing is for much bigger jobs / new builds when you plan to be there for weeks on end and need a method of pricing for the whole job and lot.
I haven't done per point pricing in ages as most of my work is small jobs 3 maybe 4 days on the job Max so hourly works better

 

[oscar21]

Per point pricing is for much bigger jobs / new builds when you plan to be there for weeks on end and need a method of pricing for the whole job and lot.
I haven't done per point pricing in ages as most of my work is small jobs 3 maybe 4 days on the job Max so hourly works better

Not necessarily, people constantly want prices off you so instead of sitting down for hours on end working stuff out time and time again you just give them a price per point.

That's what we do when we are doing these insurance jobs. Ours is £60 per point, doesn't matter what it is, its £60. The fans cost us more than £60 to buy and sometimes so does the shower cable and pull cord, not to mention the smoke/heat alarms with lithium batteries but when a 1 gang light switch is also £60 then it evens itself out again. Its surprising how near the total always is to what we would want if we priced the job anyway or did it on a day rate.

The exception is if its only 3 sockets in a bedroom but they take all day to do, sometimes its a non payer but most of the other bigger jobs make up for it.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Not necessarily, people constantly want prices off you so instead of sitting down for hours on end working stuff out time and time again you just give them a price per point.

That's what we do when we are doing these insurance jobs. Ours is £60 per point, doesn't matter what it is, its £60. The fans cost us more than £60 to buy and sometimes so does the shower cable and pull cord, not to mention the smoke/heat alarms with lithium batteries but when a 1 gang light switch is also £60 then it evens itself out again. Its surprising how near the total always is to what we would want if we priced the job anyway or did it on a day rate.

The exception is if its only 3 sockets in a bedroom but they take all day to do, sometimes its a non payer but most of the other bigger jobs make up for it.

I have never been able to make per point pricing pay me more than my £95 per hour rate.
For example a bathroom refit with 4 spots , 1 switch and a fan you would come out at 6 points so £360 all in ? there is no money at £60 per point on a job like that Imo

I would probably be 4 hours + materials so a job like that say all in with decent materials nearer £600

 

[oscar21]

I have never been able to make per point pricing pay me more than my £95 per hour rate.
For example a bathroom refit with 4 spots , 1 switch and a fan you would come out at 6 points so £360 all in ? there is no money at £60 per point on a job like that Imo

I would probably be 4 hours + materials so a job like that say all in with decent materials nearer £600

You would probably make £200 profit so its not the end of the world, especially if you could finish by early afternoon. Its still a grand a week if you could do stuff like that every day. I know its a different world pricing wise in london but no-one would pay anywhere near £95 ah hour in the north, you might get away with it if it was a 1 hour call out and you got their electrics back on after them freezing to death for a day but to just wire some sockets in an extension, no-one would dream of paying £700+ for a days work.

 

[Dustydazzler]

You would probably make £200 profit so its not the end of the world, especially if you could finish by early afternoon. Its still a grand a week if you could do stuff like that every day. I know its a different world pricing wise in london but no-one would pay anywhere near £95 ah hour in the north, you might get away with it if it was a 1 hour call out and you got their electrics back on after them freezing to death for a day but to just wire some sockets in an extension, no-one would dream of paying £700+ for a days work.

I get what you are saying but for the example of the job I gave which is about a 4 hour job maybe 5 hours by the time you unload and then load up all your gear and tidy up etc. I would want to take more than 200 quid out of it especially if it were a fair distance from where I live.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

On a larger job I tend to work it out per point (£60 or £65 depending on how I'm feeling about the job). I then have a quick think how long it will take me (adding on a few days) and see which is the highest, I then go for that one. They are generally fairly similar.

Up to a few months ago I would class each downlight a little less than a point (£50 - £55). I have recently just started to just class them all as a point when quoting. Although...

I'm currently fitting over 100 downlights in a customers house. I must admit that I did advise them to just pay me a day rate (£350) as it really did seem a bit too much to charge £6000 for just the lights!

Glad this thread is going well. We've had quite a few more on the poll, so I'll try and get around to working out the average again... when I've stopped fitting all these bloody downlights!!

Decided to quickly work it out...

Mean average hourly rate for 2022 was £41.48
Mean average hourly rate for 2023 (so far) £46.30

 

[Risteard]

On a larger job I tend to work it out per point (£60 or £65 depending on how I'm feeling about the job). I then have a quick think how long it will take me (adding on a few days) and see which is the highest, I then go for that one. They are generally fairly similar.

Up to a few months ago I would class each downlight a little less than a point (£50 - £55). I have recently just started to just class them all as a point when quoting. Although...

I'm currently fitting over 100 downlights in a customers house. I must admit that I did advise them to just pay me a day rate (£350) as it really did seem a bit too much to charge £6000 for just the lights!

Glad this thread is going well. We've had quite a few more on the poll, so I'll try and get around to working out the average again... when I've stopped fitting all these bloody downlights!!

Decided to quickly work it out...

Mean average hourly rate for 2022 was £41.48
Mean average hourly rate for 2023 (so far) £46.30

I get what you're saying, although I charged 15 downlights a couple of years back at €80 + VAT per fitting and the customer went ahead with it. I know on paper it makes it look expensive, but to be fair it takes a lot of work to do it.

 

[ipf]

I find that measuring out downlights (to avoid joists etc.) can be extremely time consuming.

Must admit to a few of those in the past, always on hourly, though.
Not much domestic these days....in fact at last NIC Assessment they'd wiped me off their details regarding Part P even though I'd registered one job through them.

 

[Mike Johnson]

When a client says, "but I can get that done my so and so much cheaper" I always replied "go ahead with so and so if you want, but when you get in trouble, you know my contact details" inevitably they came back to me eventually if not immediately.

 

[nicebutdim]

When a client says, "but I can get that done my so and so much cheaper" I always replied "go ahead with so and so if you want, but when you get in trouble, you know my contact details" inevitably they came back to me eventually if not immediately.

Relating more to previous work than electrical I've never haggled on prices quoted, but nor did I ever make any comment other than 'that's okay' when told about a cheaper option. Sometimes customers went with the cheaper price and that's fine with me. Sometimes they took 'okay' to mean 'I'll match that price' and I'd politely explain that my price wasn't negotiable. My personal favourites were those who simply looked shocked, as clearly there was no competition, and then inexplicably decided to go with your 'expensive' quote. The latter were people to tread carefully around and sometimes it felt best not to deal with them at all. I don't mind people trying to find the best possible value, but there are ways of going about doing so and there are ways which scream untrustworthy.

 

[LukeD]

Relating more to previous work than electrical I've never haggled on prices quoted, but nor did I ever make any comment other than 'that's okay' when told about a cheaper option. Sometimes customers went with the cheaper price and that's fine with me. Sometimes they took 'okay' to mean 'I'll match that price' and I'd politely explain that my price wasn't negotiable. My personal favourites were those who simply looked shocked, as clearly there was no competition, and then inexplicably decided to go with your 'expensive' quote. The latter were people to tread carefully around and sometimes it felt best not to deal with them at all. I don't mind people trying to find the best possible value, but there are ways of going about doing so and there are ways which scream untrustworthy.

Never respond . Make excuses and move on. Ive never ever price matched a lower quote

 

[nicebutdim]

Never respond . Make excuses and move on. Ive never ever price matched a lower quote

I wouldn't respond to such a message, but face to face or on the phone it would be a bit rude to say nothing.

 

[Penguin]

Never respond . Make excuses and move on. Ive never ever price matched a lower quote

Hi Luke, I’d also add to your question that we say to the Client. “That’s fine that you’ve decided to go for the cheaper quote, but please feel free to contact us again if your not happy with their work or require any further help or advise”.

You’ll be surprised at the amount of return calls you get IF and when there chose contractors don’t produce the job expected as they were so cheap.

Then your on to a winner, as you’ve got to re-quote, somebody else’s work.

Also the Client that has seen on-line a much cheaper lamp, I.e LED GU10.

(after 4x weeks the lamps have failed and they’ve got to fork at the Labour/ Scaffold hire, etc to get back up to the 25ft+ Stairwell ceiling / chandelier .

All for the sake that they saved pittance on buying cheaper imitation items from God knows where.!

They may have the BS/kite/ markings on them but….. IF it’s cheap, then there’s a reason why.!

Good luck.

 

[LukeD]

Depends... if they are first time clients Then no point in wasting time . Ive even visited a possible job and within 5 mins just left .It was obvious it was all going to be hell . Then blocked their number . Life is too short

 

[LukeD]

Hi Luke, I’d also add to your question that we say to the Client. “That’s fine that you’ve decided to go for the cheaper quote, but please feel free to contact us again if your not happy with their work or require any further help or advise”.

You’ll be surprised at the amount of return calls you get IF and when there chose contractors don’t produce the job expected as they were so cheap.

Then your on to a winner, as you’ve got to re-quote, somebody else’s work.

Also the Client that has seen on-line a much cheaper lamp, I.e LED GU10.

(after 4x weeks the lamps have failed and they’ve got to fork at the Labour/ Scaffold hire, etc to get back up to the 25ft+ Stairwell ceiling / chandelier .

All for the sake that they saved pittance on buying cheaper imitation items from God knows where.!

They may have the BS/kite/ markings on them but….. IF it’s cheap, then there’s a reason why.!

Good luck.

This is where you end up coming in second, the client is already soured and you never know whats going to happen if something goes wrong with the work thats done and the client is not wanting you to pull it all out again. Its a dangerous minefield and I prefer fields of grass

 

[Penguin]

This is where you end up coming in second, the client is already soured and you never know whats going to happen if something goes wrong with the work thats done and the client is not wanting you to pull it all out again. Its a dangerous minefield and I prefer fields of grass

Hi LukeD,

I do slightly agree with you, but rather than coming in 2nd as you won’t lower your price.
Your now the ‘Knight in shining armour’.

The real situation I was trying to relay, was that of an vacant property that we lost to a cheaper quote.

After my competitor had messed up, or had a falling out with the client,
(mainly as the originals Electrical firm were so cheap they possibly cut corners, to make money, or we’re relying on EXTRAS to make a profit).

We went in and suggested that the best, and cost affective result would be to rip out their efforts and run new.

I wouldn’t ever recommend trusting an Electrical Companies partial work having been removed from the job.

It’s cheaper for the client just to start again, rather than putting your name and reputation on some part of work that you’ve no idea what has been installed.

You definitely re QUOTE, and 9 of 10, clients just want the job done correctly and if possible within a deadline.

Your now in control, and dictate the job.

[this is private client house owners im talking about, not commercial].

The first thing the client asks is, will you be able to meet the original deadline as he’s got Tiler’s/Plasters/Decs/Carpets booked….

I answer NO… But yes, if I bring in the full team… BUT that will cost.

I’ve often said. WHY go cheap on Elec / Plumb / Data / etc…. or those trades that once installed, are mostly hidden, and very awkward to get back into once the finished floor/carpet/tiles/laminate/plaster/paint has been provided.

If you want us to pick up your and save the day. It will cost you.

 

[tony9i9i9i]

I'm trying to start up, I want to be a jobbing sparks working about 2 1/2 days a week.

I've decided £52.50 an hour is about right, I’m having a slow start, but don’t want to drop below that. I expect to take subbing contracts while I’m trying to establish myself.

What surprises me is what people will work for, I’m seeing PAYE jobs locally at below JIB rates, some at £30K a year, some up to about £60K to be fair.

Given the JIB rate is £23 plus all of the on costs, subbing rates should be £38 to £40 an hour IMO. But I’m seeing rates of £24 an hour and they act like that’s doing you a favour!

I had one agent who wanted 10 sparks about an hour from my base, for a contract on water treatment works (sewage plants in old money) and wanted to pay £23 an hour. I told them I wasn’t desperate, and I’d need £300 a day and didn’t budge from that. She said she’d see what she could do, I thought that was the end of that, but she kept checking back with me for a week and a half, until she filled the ten at £23 I suppose. That was an eye-opener into the agent's business model. It’s like they don’t know or care what we should be earning, if they can get a client to pay them £40 an hour and then pay £20 an hour, they’re happy.

As for pricing your own works, any tips on weighing up clients, sussing if it's worth spending hours pricing a job properly or seeing early doors that you are wasting your time?
I’ve had a couple of those already, could be I’m asking too much, but the way I see it if you have over £50K of camper van on the drive, you can pay me my worth.

 

[Dustydazzler]

When you first go self employed I know I spent a good few years questioning 'how much I should be charging' & 'am I too cheaop' / 'am I too expensive' etc, Tried per point , tried fixed price and ultimatley I have found per hour works best for me and to be fair most customers feel happier per hour as they feel they are getting the best deal.
I can tell you one thing you won't get a wet pants plumber out on call in my area for less than £100 per hour, some ate £150 per hour near me...

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Any chance you could put the poll back up visible @Dan , so we can get a few more hourly rates in before the years up?

 

[Admin]

Any chance you could put the poll back up visible @Dan , so we can get a few more hourly rates in before the years up?

Do a fresh one for 2024 mate the thread got changed to discussion from poll and poll is now lost unless we add the poll again and manually add the figures we knew it to be.

But you said in Oct 2023 that you did it in 2022 too, so started a fresh for 2023. (I do an annual tile adhesive poll to spot the industry changing over time it's brilliant).

So make a new one and I'll do a site-wide not dismissable notice to all those arms access and above (edit: notice to everybody as its a public thread i just noticed - it will get a better response there) and keep it there until end of Jan.

So ask in it ".... during 2024 accounts" and that can still be a poll running in Jan or Feb or even March for those VAT reg etc who may not have processed their accounts depending on whether they declare stock when bought or used.