12v Relay

[uksparks]

Hi,

I think I asked this before, but have a 12v alarm output that I want to switch a 230v load.

Can you get a din rail mounted relay or Contactor?

 

[telectrix]

yes. next?

 

[uksparks]

I presumed you could get them, are there any that are more preferred?

 

[telectrix]

ones that work are preferred.

 

[Guest77]

I presumed you could get them, are there any that are more preferred?

Just walk into your wholesalers, I will be flabergasted if they do not have one on the shelf.

 

[davesparks]

Standard din rail mount 8 pin relay base and a standard 8 pin relay with 12V coil.
Any wholesaler will have them, if they don't then find a proper wholesaler!

 

[tazz]

Remember you need a 12v contactor, as you can not run 230v through a panel relay

 

[davesparks]

Remember you need a 12v contactor, as you can not run 230v through a panel relay

Why not? If the relay has a 12V coil and 240V switch contacts what's the issue?

 

[tazz]

Because the relay mounted on the alarm pcb, needs to conform to selv, must be kept at alarm voltage potential.
A separate boxed relay must be used

 

[amlu]

38.51.0.012.0060 - FINDER - RELAY, SCREW TERM, 6A, 12VAC/DC | CPC

 

[davesparks]

Because the relay in mounted on the alarm pcb, and to conform to selv, must be kept at alarm voltage potential.
A separate boxed relay must be used

Yes, any idiot knows that, but the OP was specifically asking for a relay to put in a seperate enclosure. Your post suggested that a relay was unsuitable and it had to be a contactor.

 

[tazz]

Yes, any idiot knows that, but the OP was specifically asking for a relay to put in a seperate enclosure. Your post suggested that a relay was unsuitable and it had to be a contactor.

Suggest read the thread again....any idiot..? why ask the question.....? A relay and a contactor are the same thing....there is no difference between the two...?

 

[uksparks]

I'll take a trip to eddies tomorrow thanks.

 

[PEG]

Yes, any idiot knows that, but the OP was specifically asking for a relay to put in a seperate enclosure. Your post suggested that a relay was unsuitable and it had to be a contactor.

Had a hard day,Dave? ....Tazz knows his onions with this gear,and is far from being ^^^^ :bobby:

 

[Silly Sausage]

Yes, any idiot knows that, but the OP was specifically asking for a relay to put in a seperate enclosure. Your post suggested that a relay was unsuitable and it had to be a contactor.

Who's rattled your cage today, MATE! :smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

[Knobhead]

Because the relay mounted on the alarm pcb, needs to conform to selv, must be kept at alarm voltage potential.
A separate boxed relay must be used

Do alarm panels come with din rail mountings?

Suggest read the thread again....any idiot..? why ask the question.....? A relay and a contactor are the same thing....there is no difference between the two...?

I’ll argue that statement any time you like.

 

[uksparks]

Ok so I'm in Eddies and have purchased the following... Not being too clued up on relays, can someone tell me please which pin goes to what, so where do I out my 12v feed and 230v in and out.

thanks

 

[Pete999]

Why not? If the relay has a 12V coil and 240V switch contacts what's the issue?

I was going to say the same "why not"

 

[davesparks]

2 coil +
7 coil -
1 com 1
3 NO 1
4 NC 1
8 com 2
6 NO 2
5 NC 2

 

[Guest77]

Ok so I'm in Eddies and have purchased the following... Not being too clued up on relays, can someone tell me please which pin goes to what, so where do I out my 12v feed and 230v in and out.

thanks
View attachment 26797View attachment 26798

There is a drawing on the packaging fella, come on man

 

[Pete999]

Yes get a grip bluudy great drawing on the package, pins are numbered, plug and play, can't see from your picture, did you get the base as well?

 

[davesparks]

Come on now gents, he's a full NICEIC approved contractor, you can't expect him to be able to read the wiring diagram printed on the package or on the relay itself now can you?

 

[tazz]

Do alarm panels come with din rail mountings?

I’ll argue that statement any time you like.

No, Unless special ordered, with separated compartment.
Both are electro/mechanical switches, and both suitable for the job.

 

[Guest77]

I nominate UK sparks for EFs chimp of the month award :biggrin:

 

[tazz]

Connections are going to be down to which alarm panel you are using....will either be through onboard relay, via aux 12v. or off logic outputs. If panel has outputs only, check current rating as a low current relay maybe required first.

 

[Guest77]

Lets not over complecate it, he needs to switch a 230 volt supply from a 12 volt source through a 12 volt coil, by the way happy Birthday for yesterday, I heard you were 60, congrats :biggrin:

 

[tazz]

Im trying not to, but the relay chosen draws about 130mA and some alarm outputs can only give 50mA...hence advice to check first

 

[Guest77]

Fair enough, you do realise with that statement UK sparks won't sleep tonight now :smilewinkgrin:

 

[tazz]

Im sure when we know what panel he`s using etc, we can help him out

 

[uksparks]

Thank you for the mild abuse, I appreciate that there is a drawing on the back, it would have been more helpful if labelled thats all.

I was presuming that 2 and 7 were the 12v feed and the others were the NO or NC contacts, just wanted some clarification.

Ill stick with this.

2 coil +
7 coil -
1 com 1
3 NO 1
4 NC 1
8 com 2
6 NO 2
5 NC 2

 

[uksparks]

Let me look in the instructions for the alarm... ill be back

 

[uksparks]

Ok, its a Castle Enforced alarm, see photos from the instructions.

It says, the IO board says it has a max current output of 70mA, but then below it says the PGM/SAB outputs are 250mA continuous?

Any thoughts as im a little stumped now...

 

[uksparks]

right way up

 

[tazz]

Presume the system is using wireless bells....so the bell output should be 250mA, which should be fine for your relay.....test first with meter, set alarm off, you should get 12v across bell and +12v terminals. and no voltage when rest.....
If all ok...connect bell to terminal 7 on relay, and +12v to terminal 2 on relay.

 

[gnuuser]

Ok, its a Castle Enforced alarm, see photos from the instructions.

It says, the IO board says it has a max current output of 70mA, but then below it says the PGM/SAB outputs are 250mA continuous?

Any thoughts as im a little stumped now...

View attachment 26801View attachment 26802

i would suggest first using a solid state relay to switch the load to the coil relay or contactor
solid state relays draw very little current

but tazz is right test out the circuits before making a decision

 

[tazz]

The bell sab outputs are designed to switch strobes and sirens direct, should be fine with a relay.

 

[uksparks]

Thank you very much for the pointers here, yes its wireless at present.

Ill give it a try tomorrow probably.

Which are the SAB outputs on the picture? Im not too sure.is it the D1 D2 etc..?

The solid state relay, do you feel I should put it in, presumably you take the 12v feed from the alarm, to the solid state relay, then that output to the other relay?

So im looking for a DC to DC 12v solid state relay yes?

 

[tazz]

forget about solid state relays, output is terminals Bell and +12v as in my previous post.
If you are still unsure confirm with Pyronics

 

[Guest77]

Thank you for the mild abuse, I appreciate that there is a drawing on the back, it would have been more helpful if labelled thats all.

I was presuming that 2 and 7 were the 12v feed and the others were the NO or NC contacts, just wanted some clarification.

Ill stick with this.

2 coil +
7 coil -
1 com 1
3 NO 1
4 NC 1
8 com 2
6 NO 2
5 NC 2

No worries your welcome, we like you thats why it was mild :biggrin:

 

[tazz]

Always here to help.....its my job...!!!

 

[uksparks]

Thanks lol. I'll probably give it a try tomorrow and see what happens, I'll put my ear defenders on this time as last time I took the cover off i was shut in the cupboard with it going off full whack!

My my idea is for the new house I'm moving in to next week, I'm starting a fresh with the security as there's none. Im going to be putting down lights all round the soffits and 100w led floods at the back so although on separate switches etc, I'll be able to have all security lighting come on in one shot should the alarm go off. Just means my HD CCTV will have a. Better chance of seing what's going on.

 

[UKMeterman]

One comment, be sure to keep the wiring for the selv (12V) coil at least 6mm (1/4) inch away from the mains wiring, or sleeve one or both of them. You need this distance to ensure the SELV stays as SELV, due to creepage and clearance issues. I know some may argue that a smaller gap is required but I am trying to keep it simple.

 

[tazz]

This is why the relays mounted on alarm circuit boards cannot be used for mains voltage, as my previous post, using external boxed relay....6mm or a physical barrier ensure clearance. The relay or contactor also offers clearance, aslong as low voltage and extra low voltage cables enter enclosure at separate points.

 

[Paul P]

Don't forget you diode connected across the coil to stop the back emf. Reverse polarity connected.

Or you could go for one of the handy little relays.

Just google handy little relay.

 

[davesparks]

Don't forget you diode connected across the coil to stop the back emf. Reverse polarity connected.

Or you could go for one of the handy little relays.

Just google handy little relay.

Look at the picture he's posted, the diode is already built in to the relay he has bought!

 

[HandySparks]

Look at the picture he's posted, the diode is already built in to the relay he has bought!

Looks to me like an LED in series with a resistor to indicate supply to coil. It'll be the wrong way round for catching the back emf. If required, it'll need one direct across the coil facing in the other direction, ie not conducting with the coil energised with +ve on pin 2.

 

[davesparks]

Ok, I'll confess I didn't actually look back at the picture. I just assumed based on the number of IMO relays and contactors I have used in the past which have it fitted already.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Personally, I prefer not to use octal or 11-pin relays as interface relays as the creepage distances can be a bit marginal for electrical separation. But I'm fussy with things like that.

Looks to me like an LED

Which is visible in the pic. Provide your own catch diode.

 

[uksparks]

Just one quick question, Im only going to be wanting to pull the line on not the neutral, so this is presumably just achieved by connecting the line on its own between pins 3 NO and 6 NO?

 

[davesparks]

Look at the wiring diagram, it clearly shows where the moving contact switches from and to.