2016 new build, garage wiring query

[rjcasey]

Hi all, new to this forum as a member but follow lots of the threads.

In 2017 we moved in as the first owners of a new build by a small independent developer.

I am a bit disappointed by the wiring into the garage by what feels a lazy approach by the sparky or architects. The garage is attached to the property, and fed power via a spur from the 1st floor (the garage has a pitched roof so is quite high).

The spur then feeds a single socket for the electric garage door, a twin socket for use on the ground and an FCU feeding two fluorescent lights all from the single twin and earth spur!

From what I have always understood a spur should only ever be one socket off each one on the ring. I know you can have multiple spurs but each one must come from a different socket on the ring.

Surely this is bad practice. I have setup wiring for additional sockets but I will not be connecting anything until I have got someone round to wire a CU into the garage for its own ring but annoyling the house CU and meter cupboard are the opposite side of the property which means a long run of exterior cable clipped to the wall.

Would this spur have passed regs? Should I raise this with the arhetict we are in communication with over other snags.

Especially as the garage socket takes alot of high amp power tools etc.

Many Thanks in advance.

 

[Octopus]

If the original spur should be protected by a 13A fuse ..... if this is the case, then it complies with the regs.....

 

[Pete999]

Hi all, new to this forum as a member but follow lots of the threads.

In 2017 we moved in as the first owners of a new build by a small independent developer.

I am a bit disappointed by the wiring into the garage by what feels a lazy approach by the sparky or architects. The garage is attached to the property, and fed power via a spur from the 1st floor (the garage has a pitched roof so is quite high).

The spur then feeds a single socket for the electric garage door, a twin socket for use on the ground and an FCU feeding two fluorescent lights all from the single twin and earth spur!

From what I have always understood a spur should only ever be one socket off each one on the ring. I know you can have multiple spurs but each one must come from a different socket on the ring.

Surely this is bad practice. I have setup wiring for additional sockets but I will not be connecting anything until I have got someone round to wire a CU into the garage for its own ring but annoyling the house CU and meter cupboard are the opposite side of the property which means a long run of exterior cable clipped to the wall.

Would this spur have passed regs? Should I raise this with the arhetict we are in communication with over other snags.

Especially as the garage socket takes alot of high amp power tools etc.

Many Thanks in advance.

The spur that feeds thwsocket in the garage, is that socket fed by a fuse spur?

 

[rjcasey]

Thats the thing the spur is just for the lights, I am guessing with a 5Amp fuse (havent opened), no FCU other than that, I can tell because the socket ones loop through the fcu and when switched off it just turns off the lights.

 

[Octopus]

Are you certain there isn't a fused spur in one of the bedrooms?

 

[Pete999]

Are you certain there isn't a fused spur in one of the bedrooms?

OP can you upload a sketch of the layout starting from the Bedroom where the garage supply comes from.

 

[Octopus]

Would this spur have passed regs? Should I raise this with the architect we are in communication with over other snags.

If there is no 13A fused spur to isolate the garage, then this is no acceptable by the regs and yes you should add it to the snag list.

 

[rjcasey]

Are you certain there isn't a fused spur in one of the bedrooms?

Yes the point at which the power comes in is the wall where the stairs are. There is no FCU’s in the house apart from the driveway lights and heating etc. Certainly not one for the garage. I will share a photo of the entrance point in the garage and the wiring.

This is the other point that bothers me, I will need to find the point it does spur off as I am not a fan of terminating wires, would like to find the socket. Which I guess will be in one of the bedrooms and sideways along to the stair wall where it enters the garage

 

[HandySparks]

Unless you're running a large compressor, welder, etc., I would just install a 13A FCU in the supply to the garage. What exactly are these 'high amp power tools'?

Alternatively, I would look at the possibility of breaking into the socket ring at another convenient location and extending it into the garage.

 

[rjcasey]

Yes compressor, various wood working tools. I like the sound of extending the ring main as that could come from a closer room on the ground floor.

Ideally I would have liked its own CU but I think as you say its overkill. Would have been easier at time of build.

Could have gone 13amp fused but I am not a fan of this option, I think i will get an electrian to get the ring extended.

Does anyone have a view at what point a fused spur would reach its limits?

Thanks for the advice.

 

[rjcasey]

I guess the answer to my question is in the question, the radial still cant excede 13amps load but the fcu would protect from this instance.

I think I will go with the option knowing that not everything will be on at once and adding the fcu to the radial gives the added protection of overload on the spur.

Thanks for all your advice.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

I know you can have multiple spurs but each one must come from a different socket on the ring.

Wrong. There is no such rule. Several spurs can be taken from one point on the ring subject to being able to get all the cables in.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

I have setup wiring for additional sockets but I will not be connecting anything until I have got someone round to wire a CU into the garage for its own ring

Why do you want a CU? All you need to do is to rewire the spur to the garage to its own 20a MCB in the main CU.

 

[rjcasey]

Why do you want a CU? All you need to do is to rewire the spur to the garage to its own 20a MCB in the main CU.

Whether I have a small two mcb CU in the garage is irrelevant but I take your point. Its more just have a 2 mcb garage CU would remove the need for the lighting fcu as would give me a split lighting and a socket circuit from the feed. The issue is more the fact that I would need a big run of cable to get to the house CU even the spur feed is completely the other side of the house to the CU.

Currently, the options are, in order of best practice from my point of view:

1. Take a feed for the garage from the CU but alot more work
2. Extend the ring main from downstairs into the garage, which is quite doable as there is a socket not far and would only need 2-3m of external cabling to get back to the garage
3. Add a 13amp fcu to protect the spur feeding the radial in the garage.

I think option 3 is fine for what I need for now to give the spur the protection it should have
anyway

But a feed from the CU would have been ideal at the time of building the property. Which is what I see on most new builds a MCB for the garage

 

[magnoliafan89]

Is it not possible to just change the first socket where the supply comes in into an FCU and then just add a few extra sockets on?

 

[rjcasey]

Is it not possible to just change the first socket where the supply comes in into an FCU and then just add a few extra sockets on?

What you have described is the option 3 I listed above.

 

[rjcasey]

Is it not possible to just change the first socket where the supply comes in into an FCU and then just add a few extra sockets on?

What you have described is the option 3 I listed above.

 

[123]

Welders, Plasma Cutters aside, your tools are never going to get close to 13A.

It does sound like a less than ideal setup, but if you bought it from new you should have told the builders that you had plans to use the garage as a workshop and discussed your needs with them. They won't have catered for the likes of this, they will have catered for the absolutely lowest cost scenario. Amazed to hear they left power for a roller door tbh.

 

[rjcasey]

Welders, Plasma Cutters aside, your tools are never going to get close to 13A.

It does sound like a less than ideal setup, but if you bought it from new you should have told the builders that you had plans to use the garage as a workshop and discussed your needs with them. They won't have catered for the likes of this, they will have catered for the absolutely lowest cost scenario. Amazed to hear they left power for a roller door tbh.

It was already built so slightly silly comment. It actually is nothing to do with the fact I will be using the garage. It should have the radial fused with 13amp fuse as at the moment the spur has no protection regardless of any tools.

Why would they not add power for the roller door its a very high spec build. Odd comment but thanks.

 

[123]

It doesn't sound that high a spec new build chum, it merely sounds like all of the other mass produced houses.

I thought you had said you bought it from new, which would have given you some input into things and the extra's you'd require.

 

[rjcasey]

It doesn't sound that high a spec new build chum, it merely sounds like all of the other mass produced houses.

I thought you had said you bought it from new, which would have given you some input into things and the extra's you'd require.

Love how you have assumed the spec based on the electrics in the garage. It was built by an independent developer and is nothing like you think so please dont assume. I have seen many new builds by the big guys, wouldn’t touch one.

I did buy it from new, but the houses were already built before they were sold.

This is all besides the point. Question was around regs of the garage not having a point of termination and protection with a fuse.

I could still quite easily add this to my snag list which was the question which has already been answered.

I am not sure why you consider this as an extra requirement. For me to have the garage on a unfused spur is bad practice.

 

[rjcasey]

If there is no 13A fused spur to isolate the garage, then this is no acceptable by the regs and yes you should add it to the snag list.

Thank you for the advice. I should have trusted my judgement, and will speak to the developer.

 

[magnoliafan89]

Or you could just make the socket a fused spur and jobs a good un...

 

[Toneyz]

You can only have one unfused spur from the R.F.C. feeding a single/double socket or switched fused spur. From what you describe it does not comply with the regulations.