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Discuss 302 written, what books can i take in? in the Electrician Courses : Electrical Quals area at ElectriciansForums.net
K
Knobhead
Not the on site guide
E
Electricalserv
No books are allowed!!!!!!
Is this level 3 2330. We where not aloud any text books at all back in 2008. Surely this can not be allowed
E
Electricalserv
I don't think you are allowed any books at all. I never once had a book in any of my written exams. Why should you be allowed a book? The written is about general knowledge not if you can souce & read like the 2382...
If certain colleges are allowing this guilds should be made aware....
If certain colleges are allowing this guilds should be made aware....
just checked city and guilds website and read up on this to make sure and it says for 302 material aloud :
BS7671: Requirements for Electrical Installations June 2008
• IEE On-Site Guide and/or AEEU Guide to Good Electrical Practice
• IEE 17th edition Corrigendum
http://www.cityandguilds.com/documents/ind_construction_electrical/Permitted_Reference_Material.pdf
BS7671: Requirements for Electrical Installations June 2008
• IEE On-Site Guide and/or AEEU Guide to Good Electrical Practice
• IEE 17th edition Corrigendum
http://www.cityandguilds.com/documents/ind_construction_electrical/Permitted_Reference_Material.pdf
E
Electricalserv
I find that bizarre... never once told we where aloud to use text books. Certainly think that needs to be changed. No-one in our college used any text books in our exams....It was fobidden. this was 2008
must of changed did it this year and we were encouraged to bring books in.
P
pushrod
Well i know for sure that in 2008 to 2009 you were allowed books in written papers on the 2330. To my mind i don't see anything wrong with open book exams as in the real world you would have your OSG and BS 7671 with you. You have to know how to use them, and use them quickly, if they are going to be of any use. It would be a pointless exam if it was just a test of memory. There is no skill/ability in just remembering facts - you need to be able to look up in books as to whether results are acceptable or not. Give joe public the osg and the same questions and they wouldn't know where to begin.
E
Electricalserv
Well i know for sure that in 2008 to 2009 you were allowed books in written papers on the 2330. To my mind i don't see anything wrong with open book exams as in the real world you would have your OSG and BS 7671 with you. You have to know how to use them, and use them quickly, if they are going to be of any use. It would be a pointless exam if it was just a test of memory. There is no skill/ability in just remembering facts - you need to be able to look up in books as to whether results are acceptable or not. Give joe public the osg and the same questions and they wouldn't know where to begin.
100% disagree sorry. Its pointless having a memory test?....How? A more competent spark would be able to answer questions without having to refer to the books. Give Joe public an on-site guide and yes he would have a far better chance of passing the exam than without one....
2391 is closed book and has a terrible pass rate...why?...because you need the knowldge stored in your head.
emm says on city and guilds websites books are also aloud for 2391-303
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E
Electricalserv
2391-10 Inspection & Testing is closed book mate -fact
2391-20 the old 2400 design course is open book
personally i think it should be open book, remember this course is for new electricians, I think it would be unreasonable to expect electricians in training to remember everything. and the real world is open book
now the 2391, is a bit different i think it should be closed book, as the people taking this course should already be time served working electricians so they should know everything off the top of their heads
and when I did the 2391 in Jan 2010 it was certainly closed book. are some training centres doing this open book?
now the 2391, is a bit different i think it should be closed book, as the people taking this course should already be time served working electricians so they should know everything off the top of their heads
and when I did the 2391 in Jan 2010 it was certainly closed book. are some training centres doing this open book?
C
CRAGS
I did it last year and we were aloud BS7671 and osg but you could not take in GN3
A
AP Electrical
Reason you can have brb and osg is because its has possible cable calc questions and other related things to do with brb,
the whole point of 302 is to show you have an understanding of the brb not know it back to front.
the whole point of 302 is to show you have an understanding of the brb not know it back to front.
P
pushrod
The 2391-303 is an open book exam.
It is the written exam of the 2391-20 examination.
As far as i remember i was allowed BS7671 in unit 302 of the 2391-10 they didn't expect me to remember figures that could be looked up, eg Zs values. they expected me to be able to use the book and interpret it. Unit 301 is only closed book because the questions are considered to be every day tasks that are common in the workplace, and even then it will provide info that you would normally look up.
It is far more important that you can use and interpret these publications such as the OSG and BS7671 rather than try to remember them. I am sure that the regs books of the people you would call "more competent sparks" are very well thumbed. The 2391-10 is intended for experienced electricians who are experienced in testing - it seems a lot of centres are entering inexperienced candidates and the examiners suggest this in their reports as to a main reason to explain pass rates.
Yes over time, as you become more experienced, you start to remember things, but the key thing is to be able to know how to check, interpret and apply regulations. Having a book in a timed exam is no use at all unless you are very familiar with it and can use it quickly
It is the written exam of the 2391-20 examination.
As far as i remember i was allowed BS7671 in unit 302 of the 2391-10 they didn't expect me to remember figures that could be looked up, eg Zs values. they expected me to be able to use the book and interpret it. Unit 301 is only closed book because the questions are considered to be every day tasks that are common in the workplace, and even then it will provide info that you would normally look up.
It is far more important that you can use and interpret these publications such as the OSG and BS7671 rather than try to remember them. I am sure that the regs books of the people you would call "more competent sparks" are very well thumbed. The 2391-10 is intended for experienced electricians who are experienced in testing - it seems a lot of centres are entering inexperienced candidates and the examiners suggest this in their reports as to a main reason to explain pass rates.
Yes over time, as you become more experienced, you start to remember things, but the key thing is to be able to know how to check, interpret and apply regulations. Having a book in a timed exam is no use at all unless you are very familiar with it and can use it quickly
A
AP Electrical
They let us take red amicus in as well , which was nice. -but little use
E
Electricalserv
The 2391-303 is an open book exam.
It is the written exam of the 2391-20 examination.
As far as i remember i was allowed BS7671 in unit 302 of the 2391-10 they didn't expect me to remember figures that could be looked up, eg Zs values. they expected me to be able to use the book and interpret it. Unit 301 is only closed book because the questions are considered to be every day tasks that are common in the workplace, and even then it will provide info that you would normally look up.
It is far more important that you can use and interpret these publications such as the OSG and BS7671 rather than try to remember them. I am sure that the regs books of the people you would call "more competent sparks" are very well thumbed. The 2391-10 is intended for experienced electricians who are experienced in testing - it seems a lot of centres are entering inexperienced candidates and the examiners suggest this in their reports as to a main reason to explain pass rates.
Yes over time, as you become more experienced, you start to remember things, but the key thing is to be able to know how to check, interpret and apply regulations. Having a book in a timed exam is no use at all unless you are very familiar with it and can use it quickly
You are rambling on about rubbish pushrod. We are talking about written exams being open/closed book and you bring practicle exams into it? what are you talking about.
The 2391 written is not open book. Never has been and never should be and that was my point. Its got a low pass rate because of this...because you need the technical knowledge in your head to pass it. Thats most likely the reason why people pass the 2330 302 and not the 2391-10, because there is no help from any source
A
AP Electrical
Can never understand why people who pass 2391 get the god complex? Its just an exam
And I know a good few who have passed because they hit the books but can barely tie there shoelaces
A good way to tell If someone has 2391 is velcro instead of laces
E
Electricalserv
Whats that meant to mean? Out of interest have you passed the exam?
A
AP Electrical
Meant to mean you can do a 20week course with no prev exp and get put thru 2391 before you
Suggest I'm incorrect google it, no I don't have it does that mean I'm not as clever as you? Also why pm me same question?
E
Electricalserv
And which electrical qualification can't you do that with? You don't have it. Ahh well there you go then.
A
AP Electrical
You misunderstand not 20 weeks just on 2391 20 weeks for all course
Including brb & pat testing etc.
From your response reckon there's a chance you did it that way, if so brill
Your the best and win.
Including brb & pat testing etc.
From your response reckon there's a chance you did it that way, if so brill
Your the best and win.
E
Electricalserv
Id like to see the pass rate of those 20 week courses for 2391 I would be very very surprised if any passed.
Do enlist for the 2391 its easy!!! if you can do velcros you will pass it....get real. You justa have a chip because you haven't done it.
A
AP Electrical
Yep prob right fella like I said your no1 and don't let anyone tell you any different.
E
Electricalserv
Nice meeting amateur
A
AP Electrical
Why you sending me offensive pm's , I don't proclaim to be anything other
Than an apprentice check my prev posts, after checking some of your posts its
Obvious you don't like people very much.
Continue to pm me and we will fall out fella, if you can't put it on a open forum
Its not worth saying.
P
pushrod
Sorry Electricalserv but you need to be precise. The 2391 as such is not an exam . There are two exams- the 2391-10 (inspection and testing certificate) and the 2391-20 (the design, erection and verification certificate). Unit 303 belongs to the latter and as i , and simpson, said earlier it is an open book exam, check on the C&G website if you don't believe us.
The 2391 -10 is an exam comprising of two units and you are assessed in what you write in both. The 301 unit is exclusively a written exam and the 302 is the unit concerning practical and results entry (still involving writing)
I have already said why the examiners think the pass rate is low and they make it closed book - because they believe the subjects should be common place to the people taking the exam. (read their reports)
With regard to the 2330 level 2 and 3 some exams are on line(closed book) and some are open book including the ones that take place in the workshop. Open book exams are widely recognised in many forms of educational assessment - they are not necessarily easier because of this - they allow you demonstrate other areas of ability. An electrician needs to know their way quickly and easily around BS7671 and the OSG etc not least because of the 2382-20 and 2391-20.
We can continue this discussion on the forum if you want - not PM.
you can thank me if you like for my informative post
BTW I have never been accused of rambling on about rubbish before and does it matter if i have passed this exam before i comment on it
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E
Electricalserv
I have put everything on the open forum.... You where the one slagging of people with the 2391....laces and velcros come to mind!!!!
E
Electricalserv
Sorry Electricalserv but you need to be precise. The 2391 as such is not an exam . There are two exams- the 2391-10 (inspection and testing certificate) and the 2391-20 (the design, erection and verification certificate). Unit 303 belongs to the latter and as i , and simpson, said earlier it is an open book exam, check on the C&G website if you don't believe us.
The 2391 -10 is an exam comprising of two units and you are assessed in what you write in both. The 301 unit is exclusively a written exam and the 302 is the unit concerning practical and results entry (still involving writing)
I have already said why the examiners think the pass rate is low and they make it closed book - because they believe the subjects should be common place to the people taking the exam. (read their reports)
With regard to the 2330 level 2 and 3 some exams are on line(closed book) and some are open book including the ones that take place in the workshop. Open book exams are widely recognised in many forms of educational assessment - they are not necessarily easier because of this - they allow you demonstrate other areas of ability. An electrician needs to know their way quickly and easily around BS7671 and the OSG etc not least because of the 2382-20.
We can continue this discussion on the forum if you want - not PM.
you can thank me if you like for my informative post
BTW I have never been accused of rambling on about rubbish before and does it matter if i have passed this exam before i comment on it
Still rambling.
The header of this thread is 302 which is a written. The 2391 written is closed book end of story!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why you are bringing the design course into it I don't know. 2391 IS CLOSED BOOK END OF STORY PUSHROD ASK ANYONE WHO HAS SAT IT.
it is the one i specified the 302 we are talking about is the 2330 level 3 unit 2
you are right in what you are saying the 2391-10 is a closed book exam, 2391-20 is open which is what i said in the first place as you said 2391 is closed book but you didnt specift which 2391 you were talking about.
A
AP Electrical
Whoops I thought this post was about one mans quest for the golden chalice (2391)
E
Electricalserv
Get through the level 3 first mate, don't run before you can walk. Theres a good lad
E
Electricalserv
The 2391-20 is the old 2400 which must have changed to the 2391-20 fairly recently. I am talking solely about the original 2391
ok great! well i think this thread has been answered anyway gunna stop posting
A
AP Electrical
Will do big boy
P
pushrod
The original post is by ex army, i think you will find he was talking about a 2330 exam. You gets points for determination Electricalserv, but unfortunately nothing for politeness or manners.
P
pushrod
Is that the original 2391-01 or the original 2391-02 as they were before 2008. You have to go back even further for when it was the 2400.
- 2391-10 Level 3 Certificate in Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations (previously 2391-01)
- 2391-20 Level 3 Certificate in Design, Erection and Verification of Electrical Installations (previously 2391-02 and prior to that 2400).
E
Electricalserv
Is that the original 2391-01 or the original 2391-02 as they were before 2008. You have to go back even further for when it was the 2400.
From the C&G website (a 2008 update)
- 2391-10 Level 3 Certificate in Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations (previously 2391-01)
- 2391-20 Level 3 Certificate in Design, Erection and Verification of Electrical Installations (previously 2391-02 and prior to that 2400).
Pushrod, THEE 2391....Inspection and testing the main one!
P
pushrod
Tell that to the people with the 2391-20 lol.
I think far fewer people have that qualification
E
Electricalserv
Tell that to the people with the 2391-20 lol.
I think far fewer people have that qualification
You know the main one pushrod. Inspection, testing and certification not the design course
P
pushrod
Reply to 302 written, what books can i take in? in the Electrician Courses : Electrical Quals area at ElectriciansForums.net
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