Anyone else bother double-certing?

[Teddy Lop]

So if you fit a new consumer unit for a landlord you need to supply an EICR as that's the only thing the letting agent understands/accepts - technically though you should do an installation cert too, as that forms the customers proof you did the work and guarantee, and would be a scheme membership requirement. Is everyone doing both given it seems a waste of time and money as you're basically copying across? Seems to me most don't bother - but then the nature of the beast is I don't often get asked to attend to work thats been done properly by people who cared so it's easy to build a false image of how the industry operates. What do you do?

 

[SJD]

Yes, if I fit a new CU in a rental property, I'm completing both an EIC and EICR. My forms are in Excel, so I can just copy the schedule of test results from whichever I do first. I do add an additional half hour of time to the bill for the extra admin.

To add, the only issue I have sometimes is getting the landlord to understand the difference between the two documents, as typically they call the EICR a "landlords certificate" or something similar.

 

[DefyG]

Not forgetting the building regulation Part P notification too!

 

[loz2754]

Always do what is required regardless of whether the client understands it.
EIC for the new works. EICR for the rest of the house.

 

[westward10]

So have you done an EICR along with the board change, if so you provide both as that is what is required.

 

[DefyG]

that is what is required.

I thought it was only a recommendation to carry out an EICR prior to a board change - see 6.2.1 from Best Practice Guide No1. - It goes on to say (6.2.2) 'what if' the customer refuses a prior EICR.........

It may be that an EICR is undertaken prior to in any case (eg for the PRS scheme) and be 'unsatisfactory'. Replacing the CU and certifying as part of any remedials would then deem the installation 'satisfactory'!

 

[westward10]

I thought it was only a recommendation to carry out an EICR prior to a board change - see 6.2.1 from Best Practice Guide No1. - It goes on to say (6.2.2) 'what if' the customer refuses a prior EICR.........

View attachment 85848

It may be that an EICR is undertaken prior to in any case (eg for the PRS scheme) and be 'unsatisfactory'. Replacing the CU and certifying as part of any remedials would then deem the installation 'satisfactory'!

Which is why I asked has he actually done an EICR. If not then you can't provide a Report.

 

[Strima]

If I'm doing a board swap I will only supply an EIC. If they want an EICR they can pay full whack for it.

 

[DefyG]

Which is why I asked has he actually done an EICR. If not then you can't provide a Report.

I thought you meant an EICR 'specifically' for the board change and were not referring to an EICR carried out for the PRS scheme.

 

[grumpyjohn01]

It seems to me that a board change is just the go-to job for agents & clients alike to feel like they've done a good thing and of course its an easy sell for the sparky and profitable. A fair number of EICRs I do don't need a board change just a mild upgrade of devices. Replacing worn out and damaged accessories is often more pressing. I digress..Our paperwork system is arcane and outdated, yes we need to test and record for the technical record but all the landlord needs is a big green tick.

 

[ipf]

It can be a grey area.
OP, in your case, it is definitely both. The initial EICR and the EIC for replacement CU and any upgrades.
A problem comes when the client, mostly through ignorance, wants to see the word 'satisfactory'.
Also there is including full results with a CU change EIC, because they aren't all required in a Condition Report. Is it 'N/A' rather than 'Lim'?

 

[telectrix]

one thing that grinds my gears is a situation like this. 4 commercial sites, each one with multiple DBs. at each site i have fitted 1 radial circuit with 1 socket on the end of it. so by rights, i should spend hours and hours preparing and completing 4 EICs each consisting of 6/7 pages.

 

[Mike Johnson]

@telectrix you need to get some synchromesh on those gears and just do what is asked, but then I do understand the futile nature of most pages in both the documents.

On the EICR vs EIC, is it not the majority of case's that the modification has been prompted by an EICR and therefore it already exists, but if not done by you, would you trust it?

 

[loz2754]

would you trust it?

No I would not trust someone else's EICR.

 

[westward10]

No I would not trust someone else's EICR.

Cheers pal????

 

[timhoward]

No I would not trust someone else's EICR.

Serious question - do you ever do EICR remedials when you didn't do the EICR? I'm interested how people approach this.
I try not to discredit the original guys work unless it's completely hopeless. There seems to be a public perception out there that no two electricians ever agree and I try and avoid fuelling this myth wherever possible as it doesn't help any of us!

The problems start when you notice something serious that was missed originally....
But unless being paid to start again I think you have to start by assuming it was competently done. (Some names do ring instant bells though!)

 

[westward10]

We rarely do this however we were asked to quote a batch for some retail outlets from someone else's Reports. None of the power circuits had actually been tested just Lim and the Reports contained very little. Out of curiosity I visited a couple of sites and the list of faults not mentioned in the Reports was endless, we handed them back without comment and said no.

 

[Teddy Lop]

Serious question - do you ever do EICR remedials when you didn't do the EICR? I'm interested how people approach this.
I try not to discredit the original guys work unless it's completely hopeless. There seems to be a public perception out there that no two electricians ever agree and I try and avoid fuelling this myth wherever possible as it doesn't help any of us!

The problems start when you notice something serious that was missed originally....
But unless being paid to start again I think you have to start by assuming it was competently done. (Some names do ring instant bells though!)

TBF if the original guy was any good he'd be doing the remedials himself, it tends to be where the client smells something off that the rems get offered around! Or the clients just sniffing to get the best price. Neither option tends to be desirable!

Glad I'm not the only mug double certing then, I'd say a single cert that covers both would make sense but I don't think the powers who dream all this up have ever been near an actual work environment.

 

[ipf]

Serious question - do you ever do EICR remedials when you didn't do the EICR? I'm interested how people approach this.
I try not to discredit the original guys work unless it's completely hopeless. There seems to be a public perception out there that no two electricians ever agree and I try and avoid fuelling this myth wherever possible as it doesn't help any of us!

The problems start when you notice something serious that was missed originally....
But unless being paid to start again I think you have to start by assuming it was competently done. (Some names do ring instant bells though!)

Quite a few in the past. Some it's just ignore but if you know or work for the people involved, it can be awkward.
Industrial and Commercial wise, some firms do nothing but test.
Had one big rich sports club, tested by 'specialists' Bureau Veritas. I don't think they'd be interested in remedials in the slightest. Rather than a company, it's more of a conglomerate.
They've got that many testing tentacles, I wouldn't be surprised if they're into Covid testing.

 

[Mike Johnson]

They've got that many testing tentacles, I wouldn't be surprised if they're into Covid testing.

Have a guess how I read that. ?