Bathroom ceiling spots recommendation

[AJB Temple]

I have 16 ceiling spots to be replaced in a room being repurposed as a bathroom. Some will be over a shower, basin and bath hence need to be IP65.
Past experience with sealed unit (ie bulb cannot be replaced) bathroom spots is that they fail long before claimed lifetime and are then difficult or impossible to match. This has happened in two bathrooms on installations from a professional electrician (who has now decamped to Ireland and is staying there). Four units failed in under 2 years.

Please can you guys recommend some IP65 suitable lights that are likely to be reliable and wont break the bank. Bezel can be SS, black or white. There is a vast array online and it is impossible to know which are good and which are rubbish.

Thanks, Adrian

 

[Mike Johnson]

There are removable lamp IP65 GU10 downlighters available, they are only as good as the lamp you put in them: 240v GU10 Fire Rated Shower Downlight - White - IP65 | Aurora (EN-FD103W) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/AUFD103W.html

 

[Dustydazzler]

As above , I always fit a standard mains DL just like above. Use an LED lamp and job done.
Should cost no more than 7 or 8 quid for the light fitting , and I generally look for what ever Lamps the wholesaler or Screwfix have on offer

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks guys. I have an account with TLC so that helps. So, just to get this straight, are you saying that what really matters is the quality of the LED bulb and the light fitting does not matter so much?

Is it better to avoid the sealed units with integrated bulb?

 

[OLDBOY]

I have installed several different versions of the above canister style IP65 downlights and in my humble opinion they dont look great, I would be inclined to show your client a sample before commiting. The advantage of course is that the lamp can be replaced. I almost always install good quality integrated downlight such as Collingwood and cant remember the last time I had to replace a failed unit, however with the number you are installing I can see that one failed unit a few years down the road could be a real problem if it couldnt be matched.
Have a look at Astro fittings, high quality and GU10 lamps, I use a lot of their stuff on high end installs where quality is required.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks all. Oldboy, the client is my wife. Aesthetics is critical. If I don't provide satisfaction certain privileges get withdrawn....

It's our own house and we would not normally want sixteen to eighteen down lights in a bathroom, but it's a former kitchen and that is the number it had (plus two penetrations for former smoke alarm and a dangling lamp) along with another dozen in the next door room (which will be a laundry) on two muddled circuits.

With possibly 30 to install (plus a few for eventual failures), budget is a factor. I'll get her to look at Collingwood and Astro.

What she really wants is small light apertures (about half the size of a G10 face) but I have not found any IP65 units that meet that criterion. In the adjacent laundry / boiler room, IP44 would be fine. Switching in the bathroom will be Quinetic .

 

[Mike Johnson]

If this is a modern house check the ceiling height and zones, your ceiling may be outside the zones in most areas and only possibly inside the zones measured from the bath or shower tray, therefore a much lesser requirement for IP65 units.

Most modern lighting now days seems to be by a dropped ceiling bulkhead around the outside of the room and peripheral lighting recessed inside the bulkhead.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Second photo here will give you the idea: Luxury Homes in London - Harrison Varma - https://www.harrisonvarma.co.uk/luxury-homes-in-london/

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks Mike. Fully agree re dropped bulkhead look. Smart and makes wiring up dead easy. In my case it definitely needs IP65 - I have read the regs carefully. It is a barn conversion and this room only has a ceiling height of circa 2020mm once I've laid the stone floor. It's not even enough to have an overhead rain shower unit over the shower tray. It's not the main bathroom and only for occasional use. The lack of height is why I am not sticking plasterboard up over the existing ceiling. Patch and skim is not viable either as I can't get a plasterer for 8 weeks and I need this finished by then.

 

[Mike Johnson]

If it's a barn conversion what are the ceiling joists like, could be a case of taking the ceiling down and replacing above the joists, this may give you the height you need to be outside the IP height zone and the shower head if the joists are deep enough, even if they are not you could increase the depth with localised additional joists/bit of timber, just a thought.

 

[nicebutdim]

What she really wants is small light apertures (about half the size of a G10 face) but I have not found any IP65 units that meet that criterion.

Take a look at Ansell Prism Pro mini downlights. Perhaps not as small as she might like, but something like a 40mm cutout, IP65, fire rated and backed by a 5yr warranty.

 

[AJB Temple]

No chance Mike. It's an ex Kitchen and so there is a room above. No chance of altering the ceiling height and not worth the expense either just to fit some lights. I've got plenty of room to fit the lights within the void.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks NbutD. I am dealing with a 60mm cut out currently but could deal with that by maing blanking plates. Will take a look at the ansell product.

 

[Mike Johnson]

These could help: LEDlite Hole Conversion Plate - Chrome | LEDlite (LTHCP Chrome) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTHCPC.html

Quite often used to use Bonding to put a plasterboard batten over a hole from above and then a plasterboard circle cut from an off cut Bonded to the batten, just a matter of making good and cutting a new correct size hole after.

 

[TobyJones]

Thanks guys. I have an account with TLC so that helps. So, just to get this straight, are you saying that what really matters is the quality of the LED bulb and the light fitting does not matter so much?

Is it better to avoid the sealed units with integrated bulb?

The annoying thing these days with any product is that manufacturers rarely keep producing the same thing as technology evolves especially with LED. Go with a longer standing brand like Collingwood or Ansell and they’re sure to have a reasonably priced option with a plug function that has stayed relatively universal in the last decade for ease of replacement and register your purchase with them and they will uphold any guarantee that is written on the box…even if you have to change the plug when the new light arrives in the post and don’t like that it’s brighter than all the others

 

[nicebutdim]

Thanks NbutD. I am dealing with a 60mm cut out currently but could deal with that by maing blanking plates. Will take a look at the ansell product.

Just realised it was the lens size you'd referred to and I'd been under the impression it was bezel size.

I've fitted a few of the units linked below now. 70mm cutout (easy for you to enlarge existing holes), smallish lens (although not quite as small as you've been tasked with finding), fire rated, IP65, 5 year warranty, choice of bezel finish.

Colour temp is also selectable from under bezel. I don't imagine many people change colour temp once lights are fitted, but like the idea of not needing to pull it out of the ceiling if one should happen to be set incorrectly.

Edit: Almost forgot the best bit - prewired with quickwire T-connector, so 60 seconds to 2nd fix as long as wired in T&E.

Quickwire-Ricoman Fire Rated Downlight

Quickwire now provide a market leading fire rated downlight that comes factory fitted with a Quickwire plug & socket.

www.quickwire.co.uk

 

[AJB Temple]

This is such a helpful forum. Thanks guys. All really good stuff. I was unaware you could buy conversion plates to cover the ceiling holes. Those quickwire lights might satisfy what she wants. I'm not too fussed about speed of installation as no one is paying me to do it and I just take my time and do it right. Todays job is rewiring oil boiler switches.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I your OH really wants small diameter lights have a look at decking lights seem to come in all sorts of small diameters, IP should not be a problem either.

 

[nicebutdim]

This is such a helpful forum. Thanks guys. All really good stuff. I was unaware you could buy conversion plates to cover the ceiling holes. Those quickwire lights might satisfy what she wants. I'm not too fussed about speed of installation as no one is paying me to do it and I just take my time and do it right. Todays job is rewiring oil boiler switches.

The T-connector does a bit more than save time on 2nd fix. Cables can be terminated in their half, which allows power to the circuit without downlights being in place. It also means quick disconnect if you wanted to remove for painting or replacement. It was the Quickwire connectors which first drew me to these lights, but purchases (both initial and subsequent) have been made on the basis of *perceived quality.

I state 'perceived' as it has only been 18 months or so since I first fitted them, but they appear to be well made and are backed by a decent warranty.

I your OH really wants small diameter lights have a look at decking lights seem to come in all sorts of small diameters, IP should not be a problem either.

Deck/plinth lights tend to be quite low output as they're intended for 'mood' lighting. Several manufacturers now offer mini downlights for general lighting, but after recommending one I realised the OP wants small lens (not a small can) and needs to fill a 60mm cutout.

 

[Mike Johnson]

That's why I directed the OP towards:

These could help: LEDlite Hole Conversion Plate - Chrome | LEDlite (LTHCP Chrome) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTHCPC.html