customers......................................... .

[vitoboy]

a customer calls to question the saftey of my installation.stable block.
he states that he has had the work inspected by another contractor
and it has been condemed.he will not disclose the name of said contractor
or his findings.
he states that i cannot remove my equipment(for free)as it now belongs to him
ill be stealing...
the amount charged has also been questioned(ive supplyed itemised bill) and at this time the
customer has no intention of paying any amount.
i have tryed to discuss the problem but the customer becomes abusive and will not listen to
my explanations of why the work is correct.

i know my install is all good to 17th.. ive worked for the nhs..the mod..and four local councils
and have will have 20 years exp to date but as ive been in bussness for myself only 8 mths
my nic eic registration is not yet complete as ive still to wait another month for my inspection.

any advice on how to proceed would be great
ta.

sorry peeps ive posted this in the wrong place..im a bit new to this.

 

[ghost]

I think he's trying it on with you. The fact he won't discuss with you speaks volumes. Non payers have a habit of quoting it's his once installed, I bet it's not the first time he has done it.
Fortunately, this has never happened to me and I can only sympathise, however I am sure somebody on here will be able to offer advice. I would be interested to hear how other sparks have dealt with people like this before.

 

[acat]

Anything you have installed belongs to you, thats the easy bit. If he calls the police you will be told its a civil matter and anything thats in your possession they should allow you to keep anything that you havent removed stays with him.

I would not recommend that you remove anything because if you damage any of his property that becomes a criminal offence and the police will arrest and charge you if he is willing to go to court.

I would suggest that you go to CAB and get their advice and any further communication is done in writing. Depends on how much you are owed and how far you want to take it just remember that the laws of this country protect the guilty you could end up spending a fortune and get nothing in return.

Chris

 

[Guest123]

Hi.

In the eyes of the law, until all goods are payed for in full they remain yours (or your wholesalers) until you pay them.

If you read the small print on the bottom of your delivery notes you will see it states that goods remain the property of e.g CEF, until payment is recieved in full.

This is worthwhile adding to the bottom of your quotes aswell, stops incidents like this.


If he will not give up any details on the "other contractor" or the "issues" with the job then he is obviously taking the michael!!!

Bill him as you would normally, after the payment terms have elapsed (providing you have them on the quote) send him a reminder with another 7 days on it. If he still doesn't cough up then a letter informing him you will be passing the matter on to your debt recovery agency will do the trick.

It's worth remembering that if you dont put payment terms on an invoice, then it is NEVER due for payment.

I've seen people get caught out by this before.


HTH.

 

[Spudnik]

This is why you should draw up some form of agreement between you and the customer before work starts, especially with larger contracts.

Not very helpful now though i know.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

This may be usefull to some, as Ive known people who have been paid on the back of this. Not sure if its B2B only though.

Thomas Higgins Debt Collection

 

[wattsup]

Customers can be a complete pain, actual jobs done, no complaints, so far, touch wood! ...but loads of time wasters for quotes..sometimes all over the bloody country (the business I'm in means I have to) I give a ball park price via email or phone, if they are interested I call and then give a guaranteed quote, nearly always below the ballpark figure...then they ignore ...kin tyre kickers.
The BBC should make a programme, Rogue Customers

install a secret wireless contactor on an essencial circuit, maybe a ring main!..(only for potential dodgy customers)
Imagine the fun, drive by and energise...wait an hour (to give the customer time to call, or a nother) if a nother de energise...err, it all went off now its back on....continue every day until customer gives up and calls you

 

[vitoboy]

rogue customers...yep like it...
im gonna only have contact via recorded post .inform him he has 14 days to
pay.
after all he's given me no paperwork to say he'll not pay or is not happy with my
work.
after that i guess its to the jolly old debt collectors.its still poor though....guy only
lives 500yrds down the road small village an that.
i know some of my previous employers would say...forget it and go out and earn
the next weeks wages....you'll get used to it......
guess i will init.

 

[saveloy]

rogue customers...yep like it...
im gonna only have contact via recorded post .inform him he has 14 days to
pay.
after all he's given me no paperwork to say he'll not pay or is not happy with my
work.
after that i guess its to the jolly old debt collectors.its still poor though....guy only
lives 500yrds down the road small village an that.
i know some of my previous employers would say...forget it and go out and earn
the next weeks wages....you'll get used to it......
guess i will init.

Use Registered post not recorded. I've had letters go missing using recorded!

Don't ever get used to it. If word gets around you could end up with his mates trying it on as well. Make his life hell -legally of course. .

That debt firm posted by Graeme Harrold looks very good value for money. The initial letter only costs £2!! Looks very cheap even to take them to court and they'll even get balliffs involved as well. And they keep adding to the bill that is owed.. I'd use them for entertainment value alone. Good luck and don't give up!

 

[MarcT]

Some Schemes like ECA offer an arbitration service for cases like this. You could always try invoice factoring in the future. If the customer is genuine then they will want to make a formal complaint. i doubt this is the case, more like a ruse. As mentioned, after the final demand it's small claims. There are always people like this but luckily you can tell most of the time.

 

[Mac]

Ask for a report off the electrician/contractor that condemned your work.If he won't/can't supply one,tell him that you are going to sue him.

 

[saveloy]

Methinks people in this country are getting short of money. I expect we'll be seeing a lot more behaviour like this, this year , as people need to get their crappy electrics improved, without the funds to pay for it.
Be careful out there chaps. Maybe it will soon be time to ask for deposit payments before starting jobs? to partly cover ourselves.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Methinks people in this country are getting short of money. I expect we'll be seeing a lot more behaviour like this, this year , as people need to get their crappy electrics improved, without the funds to pay for it.
Be careful out there chaps. Maybe it will soon be time to ask for deposit payments before starting jobs? to partly cover ourselves.

I take a 50% up front to cover hardware and they dont get certs until paid in full

 

[saveloy]

I take a 50% up front to cover hardware and they dont get certs until paid in full

I normally ask for a stage payment after a few days on a big job with a big outlay and to be honest I've never had a refusal so far.
My take is that if customers are not willing to share on the costs of an ongoing project then there is a greater possibility of them defaulting on the whole job, plus I am a tradesman not a finance company. I am not in business to supplement their bank account, I'm in business to provide myself a wage.

 

[ezzzekiel]

This is the second post ive read recently with similar storyline and i usually find that violence is the key

 

[vitoboy]

thanks for the support guys
ill try and keep this updated so you can all see what happens.
but wireless contactors.................mmmm

yes but regs and nic state certs should be supplyed for all install work and not with held for non payment.
i install it hence i must supply an installation cert....thats it.......any other ideas.?

This is the second post ive read recently with similar storyline and i usually find that violence is the key

dont tempt me......

 

[donm]

if you know your job cant be snagged tell the nic to inspect that for your assesment

 

[saveloy]

Have you actually been round to this bloke's house to try and get payment/discuss any supposed problems.

 

[vitoboy]

its a long story.
three weeks ago he verbally informed me that bill for the job was to high.
he was very angry as he had me quote the work{in writing}which was accepted.
on arrival to start the customer added to the works with extra lights and sockets
welding socket in another near by building ect.
his words to me at that point were..i understand this is not what you quoted for
and stated he knew the quoted cost would go up.
the work was installed just before xmas.it was tested for functonallity and left isolated
at the origin of the sub main to said stable.
no written contact was made by him but he called me and left a message to contact him[no reason given]
we had finnished work for xmas break so i visited him first week of jan 2010.
he was verbally abusive about the size of his bill and asked for a itemised-price list for all parts and labour.
a few days later i supplyed this.he seemed happy.
few days later i returned to the job to complete the installation cert and was met once more with verbal abuse
this time he states my work is unsafe as its been inspected by another contactor...but will not say who or
show me any results.
he states one major fault is that the swa cable sub main to his new stable is not protected by rcd....!
as its a swa and the c/u it feeds is rcd protected i let him know that this complys with 17th thank you..!
this did not help.more abuse.he then states that £20 per hour is to much and he will decide if and how
much will be payed and when.
i now have a proforma letter ill send him on mon...see if he likes this..
please feel free to tell me to shut up as i feel i may be rambling on a bit.....but the whole thing is frustrating
also ive offered to look at the bill with him to see if i can help him out anywhere...but to no avail.
so..........? i think ive done all i can....for now.

 

[saveloy]

Mate you have the patience of a saint. From what you say I don't think you could have handled it better. Good luck to you. All I can say is make yourself as big a PITA as you can legally to him, and good luck.

 

[oldtimer]

You know in this day and age with the internet and email me thinks a good idea would be that when you send a quote out for work you lay out exactly what was asked for and also a proviso line that states if the customer
changes there mind or is looking for extras then put it in an email along with the price and send it to them stating that you cannot proceed until they send a confirmation mail.

I know this does not help you but I must admit I got caught out a couple of times when I was installing servicing alarm systems and the sums I was conned out of was £60-£100 bucks so when the customer says are you questioning my honesty you reply no not at all but I need to have a formal agreement to protect both parties most people will say thats fine and the ones who make a living out of shortchanging people will move on to another "sucker" Yes I know its not fair but every day is a school day as far as I am concerned.

 

[Spudnik]

A quick call to Citizens Advice beforehand may help you with some ammo.

 

[vitoboy]

my notice of due payment has now been signed for by my...customer
seven days then its notice of court action.........stay tuned

 

[beaver74]

dont hold you breath i have just had a judgement to pay me served on a customer.and now if he does'nt pay i must enforce the claim at my cost and he still may not have to pay. the law is in the ******** favour

 

[vitoboy]

yeh......
ive been getting that from a few people so ..all i can do is go through the motions and hope he'll pay in the end.
ill get a small aamount of pleasure from knowing he's getting hassle.
and in the end its a small village and word will get around.....yes it will...
who knows ccj may hurt a bit.

 

[Brian Boyd]

A previous employer i worked to a few years back had same problem. As i installed the job i had to meet to go over the job. It was supply cable to new chicken shed meterd separately. My instructions were if he fails to pay lift out the meter and c.u. As the shed was full of chickens he couldn`t let power off or the chickens would have suffocated. He panicked and payed there and then when i told him what would happen if he failed. I`ve never had one since went out on my own thankfully.

 

[vitoboy]

ok
today i received a letter recorded delivery..
cheque for £600
long letter stating.....
i asked for additional work but you've charged me to much
your print out of costs is to high ie 100m of 6mm t&e and only used 75m.
hours are too many for work done
you have not suppled a test cert
a blank is missing from c u
i will take further advice on the standard of work
here is a cheque for the full and final settelment of works £600
please supply me my cert as soon as poss
.............................................
ha.........but really

his job is unfinnished and has been energised by him.
he has denied me access to the job to complete and certify
i have shown him proof of parts costing £500
he has added to my works by the additon of a dsso from his welding socket
so...if my work is incomplete because of denied access on his part
and he's declined to pay me the amount invoiced then why would i complete the works?
so if i don't complete the works why do i need to supply a cert...?
any thoughts on this gents..?
if i cash his cheque am i accepting this as final payment?

 

[acat]

I would say that unless the cheque is marked on the back as full and final payment then no it can be taken as an installment ensure that letter does not state it either. Point out in writing that he has refused you access repeat the full cost and acknowledge receipt of cheque as part payment.


Check the above out from legal side.


Chris

 

[vitoboy]

in the letter he does state..."i send a cheque in full and final settlement for work done"

 

[acat]

In which case you have to decide to accept and thats it or try for the complete amount. Best to take legal advice from CAB at the start as its free and see what they say bringing all documentation with you. At least if you did not have a written agreement with him he can no longer deny that he owes you money.



Chris

 

[saveloy]

in the letter he does state..."i send a cheque in full and final settlement for work done"

Have a read of this The Law – ‘Full and final settlement’ - Voltimum UK - Electrical Installation Products and Contracting

It would appear that you can cash his cheque and still carry on and continue to sue for the remainder, as long as you inform him at the time of presenting the cheque or a short time after, that you do not accept it as full and final settlement.

HOWEVER I would not take this as proper legal advice. I echo all the other posters who have advised that you seek correct legal advice, BEFORE you make your next move, AND DO NOT present the cheque until you have clarified your position.

 

[Pickled_Wizard]

Go get him - use form N1 from the HMCS site, and, assuming judgement is in your favour, each bailiff visit costs £55, which is added to his bill, and, having used this system before, they are tenacious and visit regularly!

 

[vitoboy]

Go get him - use form N1 from the HMCS site, and, assuming judgement is in your favour, each bailiff visit costs £55, which is added to his bill, and, having used this system before, they are tenacious and visit regularly!

your veiw of fair play is.............outstanding..sir..........

but.............

your.............
mmmm
do you know the canadian....???