Green Deal - Fear becoming reality

[Glen Powell]

Seems now that the fear is becoming more real with the providers only offering products they sell

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...me.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[SRE]

Reports on Twitter today that the non-domestic part of Green Deal is going to be delayed (what a surprise!) so that the government can make sure they get it right. I won't be surprised when the next announcement is that domestic Green Deal is being delayed to "make sure they get it right!"

An interesting point on Linked In today - why don't installers just provide longer term access to finance for their customers and completely bypass what will ultimately be a horrendously complicated government cock-up.

Is anyone offering loans at the minute? What sort of interest rates are being charged?

 

[JulianC]

Don't worry about the Green Deal. No customer of sound mind would entertain getting involved with such a shambolic load of donkey cobblers.

 

[Glen Powell]

This is the way we plan to play it, get all the accreditations and offer it on a low APR deal to show the extra saving, the biggest problem is the term of the loan.

The name "The Green Deal" is meant to inspire confidence to the end user, I think if you offer an alternative under the guidelines of the deal but with the option for the customer to pay for it themselves in a different way that allows the house to be saleable then all is good.

 

[Glen Powell]

The Green Deal will probably be the best marketing tool for those savvy enough to take on board that it is a good idea, but, it is better ROI if they pay up front.

10k on solar panels in the past so what is 10k on your household improving energy efficiency and making it easier to sell in the future. The only issue is they do not get a cheque from the utility company.

 

[sambotc]

If you have the equity in your house then surely a re mortgage would be the way to go. If you haven't then are they going to allow people to borrow an additional sum under the green deal, but attach it to a property, therefore putting the house into a negative equity state? Or am I missing something?

Surely the mortgage lenders could offer a similar bolt on to an existing mortgage, whereby the existing mortgage remains the same, but the bolt on is for X period of time. Then the home owner can shop around and the installer gets a fair chance of business by reputation rather than being railroaded into becoming a GD approved installer which will inevitably hike prices up due to accreditation and paper chasing excerises?

 

[finchy]

"a growing number of ministers are keen to see the scheme scrapped" fantastic !!

The principal sounds great, from a business perspective it's £££! But that rings alarm bells to me. Just can't see why home owners don't remortgage or DIY themselves. These improvements will add value or make houses more salable. If people can't afford to pay the energy bills because of poor insulation and can't afford to improve, well they should move. If they are tenants the govnmt should increase regulation so landlords have to provide a minimum standard for tenants.

Over time people improve the basic carbon leak problems. When the older foke who live in large family houses finally give up on life. It would make way for families to move in and bring the house up to standard. The government should be putting pressure on banks to start lending more at competive rates. They are ripping off both mortgage customers and savers whilst pocketing a massive premium.

Definately holding off going anywhere near it. I hope all the greedy large firms all catch a cold, imagine what crap B&Q employees would recommend...joke !!!

 

[sambotc]

Going to B and Q and asking about the green deal will probably see you walking out the door with a new lawn mower.

That's a good point you raise actually finchy. Rented properties are obviously not going to benefit off the green deal and landlords being landlords have zips on their trousers pockets to stop their hands from entering. So given the amount of money, time and thought that 'should' have gone into this whole process, they have missed a trick in the rental market and if the house's i've been to are anything to go by, probably need new windows and insulation more than anywhere else.

 

[SRE]

My pockets aren't zipped I'm a landlord, currently taking 3 of my 6 tenants to court because they are each more than 2 months in arrears. I'm not quite in negative equity but close, two of my tenants have trashed the houses and I can't get any of the 3 I'm having problems with out because they all know the system too well and pay the minimum the day of the court hearings. All of our houses are C or D rated.

Just thought you might like to hear the other side of being a private landlord - the one that's rarely heard about.

Does Green Deal appeal to me? Well if I didn't have a conscience I could insulate the solid walls and my tenants would have to pay for it through their bills. Win, win for me when I sell it in a few years time for a better price because my tenants have paid for the insulation. Not sure it's helping fuel poverty though!

Off the soapbox now :wink_smile:

 

[moggy1968]

Thats reassuring, I'm just looking at buying my first property to rent!!!

 

[SRE]

If I had a choice I'd ditch 2 of the ones we've got, they take quite a lot of looking after in addition to running a business. It's a long term pension - good time to buy at the minute we were almost tempted again last week to buy another. Our accountant gave us a reality check! The slowdown in pv has allowed us time to get back on top of them for the minute but we've still got one void - lettings are slow at the minute.

PM me if you want any help.

 

[Eco Deal]

Solar panels will cost to much to ever make the golden rule so forget sellign solar panels under the green deal , its cheaper products like loft insulation , cavity wall insulation & a NEW boiler and windows at the MOST.

 

[Earthstore]

My view so far is the Green Deal has so many flaws in it, on the surface it sounds great, borrow the money and pay it back out of the savings you make.
How do you quantify that then, lets say you spend a fortune with the GD to insulate your old home, but then the cost of heating oil goes up, so even though you use less oil, the cost remains the same, so in real terms no money saved, how do you repay the loan?
If the loan is secured to your property the mortgage are not going to like that one either, as pointed out before, it is starting to backfire on those that chose to have the rent a roof schemes.

 

[sambotc]

My pockets aren't zipped I'm a landlord, currently taking 3 of my 6 tenants to court because they are each more than 2 months in arrears. I'm not quite in negative equity but close, two of my tenants have trashed the houses and I can't get any of the 3 I'm having problems with out because they all know the system too well and pay the minimum the day of the court hearings. All of our houses are C or D rated.

Just thought you might like to hear the other side of being a private landlord - the one that's rarely heard about.

Does Green Deal appeal to me? Well if I didn't have a conscience I could insulate the solid walls and my tenants would have to pay for it through their bills. Win, win for me when I sell it in a few years time for a better price because my tenants have paid for the insulation. Not sure it's helping fuel poverty though!

Off the soapbox now :wink_smile:

Haha! Yeah I was tarring with same brush there. My other line of work brings me into contact with landlords quite often, or used too! so I can't help having a dig at them when I can as a lot are as tight as a ducks backside! You do get good un's though!

Again, due to my other lines of work (no I don't sell windows!) there are a few technologies in the green deal list that may apply to me, but i'm quickly loosing faith in it all and I am now thinking of ways to use the failure of the scheme boost my business, rather than working with it!

I'm getting the feeling that inflated prices along with poor quality work, long term loans through pushy sales tactics by DEA's from B and Q and alike might actually push some people back towards the small independents after they've got a taste of improving their homes off the scheme itself. They might even do all the hard work for you when it comes to the figures!

 

[SRE]

My feeling is that the further away we move from the Green Deal the better. If we can manage to have local partnerships to sort out new boilers, insulation etc and can access finance for our customers then I think Green Deal will die a death.

 

[siliconskum]

My pockets aren't zipped I'm a landlord, currently taking 3 of my 6 tenants to court because they are each more than 2 months in arrears. I'm not quite in negative equity but close, two of my tenants have trashed the houses and I can't get any of the 3 I'm having problems with out because they all know the system too well and pay the minimum the day of the court hearings. All of our houses are C or D rated.

Another landlord here.
Yeah, I know that old trick with the minimum payments (I have a tenant trying that one now... and the local council's housing dept TOLD THEM TO DO IT! *sigh* ). If you want them out and they are outside of the tenancy agreement period (or it is an 'on going' one that is past the minimum contract period), just issue a section 21 - you don't need to provide a reason. You can have them out in the standard 2 months. You wont get your money via the courts, but good luck getting that anyway - they are useually broke or declared bankrupt, so you never get it even after being awarded it (and even then it will cost you to try to get it)...
If you are stuck with an active contract period, then it's much harder.

This is one of the reasons I never give longer than a 6 month tenancy agreement, and allways have them on going after the contract runs out.


Another 'not tight' landlord here. All of my properties are EPC rated D and C too, which is the reason that MY house for the last 10 years, still has single glazed windows, a 30 year old boiler and little in the way of loft insulation. I simply couldn't afford to upgrade my own until now, which I will be starting this summer.

But yes, some landlords are renting properties (and for more than I charge) that are not fit for purpose.
Some councils now have a minimum spec that privately rented properties must meet, often with a mandatory landlord licence sceme (and the landlord can be fined, prevented from renting out, or even have their property seized). So steps have allready been taken in the right direction.

SS

 

[TedM]

Re PV and the Green Deal.

It is possible under the GD terms for an owner to 'top-up' the GD loan with their own money to make an investment that otherwise would not meet the Golden Rule. This could mean that a PV install is, say, 25% funded via a GD loan and the balance from another source.

At least these were in DECC's proposals, no actual terms announced yet of course. There is also no clarity from DECC on how such an arrangement would affect FiTs payments.

 

[Energetic]

I've heard that council tax will soon be payable on EPC rating/carbon footprint rather than value. This is an incentive for a tenant to proceed with the GD. If the tech also receives an RHI that goes to the tenant/electricity bill payer.

That said, the major reward seems to be a guaranteed return for the banks etc that stump up the loans - funded by bailouts and pressure from the gubmint to lend.