How do we make this job pay?

[3wayselectrical]

At the moment I'm lucky if i get 1 in 10 quotes converted into jobs. I've found the most successful approach on large jobs is to provide the customer with a bill of materials listing all the parts and costs, a scope of works with details of estimated man hours and a quote with the final costing. This seems to give the right impression to the customer and the most accurate from my point of view of how much I should be charging. On the whole I've been quoting around the £3500 mark for a typical re-wire on a 3 bed house (unoccupied,add about £1000 to an occupied because they never clear fernature or carpets and it always takes a lot longer). Working on my own a complete rewire is hard graft and usually takes about 2 weeks. I'm charging £150/day for that and getting under cut in some cases by more than £1000! How do they maintain a profit and keep up to date with registration fees and other overheads?

 

[Marvo]

Well we aim to get 25-35% of our quotes converted into jobs. If it's less I'll trim marginsa little, if it's more I'll adjust the other direction. I wouldn't give a bill of materials at the quoting stage, I might break the materials into areas but that's as far as I'd go. If you list materials individually it makes it too easy for the customer to hand your quote to another contractor and he'll easily under-cut you.

 

[Short Circuit]

i recently quoted £2800 to rewire an empty 3 bed semi, when i gave the lady the price, she looked at me as if i was ripping her off! I had already done it mates rates as she was a friend of a friend. She then went on to tell me she had already had a price of £1500! I told her that she should have told me that before i drove the 20 miles to see her as i wouldnt have bothered! I have never been back to see how it went but expect that she wont have any certs or any form of guarantee! The top and bottom is that there will always be someone out there that will undercut the price, no matter how competitive you are! I reckon the guy who did the house i looked at is probably doing it on the side and 'borrows' most of the materials from somewhere - the gear alone makes it almost that price!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Maybe this new rule regarding part p will somehow do something about all this?...

 

[cbw]

I quoted recently for a 3 bed rewire, habited and went in at £4600.00

This was all MK
Each day they would have floorboards replaced
Each day a cleaner would attend for 1 hour
Each day they would have electric.
It would take my team 2 weeks

I was £1600 more than the guy who got the job.

2 months into the job said customer phones me in tears, they have been living in a hotel for 2 months with a 1 month old baby and said electrician still felt it would be another 8 weeks.

They could no longer afford the hotel bills and could I please come in and finish off????

If I could have done it I would, this ended costing a lot more for a lesser job.

I use this as an example when asked why I am so much more than joe bloggs

 

[GLENNSPARK]

When my boss and i go in to survay...the first thing we look at is wether its floorboard or chipboard and always ask if there having the ceiling boarded as that all knocks time off....were always on the lookout for the easiest cable run whilst remaining compliant......makes you wonder about some of these undercutters goin into peoples properties without a clue.....

 

[Octopus]

[2 months into the job said customer phones me in tears, they have been living in a hotel for 2 months with a 1 month old baby and said electrician still felt it would be another 8 weeks.

[/QUOTE]

Another 8 WEEKS!! - the sparky must have been doing it on the side out of hours!!!

 

[TPES]

I went to price a kitchen rewire, another spark before me has already been to give a quote,

There is additions & alterations to the RFC
Water bonding
New cooker circuit
Alterations to lighting circuit
Core out for extractor

There is old rewireable fuse board, the customer agrees to a new dual RCD CU.
The first electrician has said already there's at least £300 just on changing your CU without touching anything else.

I know of this first electrician, he's an older chap who's fully registered and I'm sure knows his stuff and does a decent job issuing test certs and notification

A couple of days later i see his quote for £500 for the whole job, all materials and labour.

I can't compete at all with this! I'm getting this more and more lately and loosing out on jobs for people who are doing work for silly prices. I'd love to speak to this other sparks I'm loosing work to and ask them what there secret is? How do they do it?

Maybe you lot could tell me, is there some kind of electricians secret tool that allows you to first fix in an hour? Or maybe a special tool to help me second fix

 

[stan794]

I have just been working with a full time spark to get some experience on a 3 bedroom house rewire (furnished), he charged them £2100, if he had charged anywhere near the above then he would not have got the business. Another example - we had to upgrade a shower and upgrade the cable, supply and fit with a £170 shower, he quoted £350 and was knocked back, seems they got it done for £260 - crazy.

 

[jar]

You can never compete with Jimmy up the road doing it for a fiver or 20 smokes and a beer.
All you can do is give a price that will cover your time mark up your materials in a fair maner and tell the costomer to make sure that whoever does the work has public liability insurance, just incase the house burns down with an electrical fault.
If the insurance people insisted on more pir for private housing they would have a heart attack at the state of some of the work that you come accross.

 

[Dcf]

2100 quids for a 3 bed occupied furnished rewire?? christ is this 1987 I'm in or what.your material will be about 1000 to 1200 + vat cost alone not leaving a lot for the labour cost there eh? The thing the general public don't get just now is that proper service and workmanship costs money always has and always will.pay peanuts get monkeys n it still rings true to this day

 

[Des 56]

Maybe this new rule regarding part p will somehow do something about all this?...

Whats this new rule Glenn ?
or am I being thick again and that was a tongue in cheek comment

 

[trev]

Whats this new rule Glenn ?
or am I being thick again and that was a tongue in cheek comment

Is that the one where to be a DI you have to have NVQ3? Rule coming in in January

 

[Des 56]

Is that the one where to be a DI you have to have NVQ3? Rule coming in in January

That wont affect those sensible types trev, the non part p installers

 

[stan794]

Will never happen.
Nothing confirmed yet, spoke to both Elecsa and Napit. Elecsa said no change all they require is 17th, Napit much the same but must complete their trade test within 12 months or get 2391 either way they will accept you.

 

[trev]

That wont affect those sensible types trev, the non part p installers

Would they be the installers that part p was supposed to get rid of? Hehe

 

[3wayselectrical]

There's a little foot note to my rant! I quoted on a referb. recentley for a 4 bed 4 reception house. the work had been started by another sparks who had insalled the RM to the first floor and part of the first floor lighting and then bailed out claming he would not be available untill January for further work!

I quoted £4100 to complete the work including checking the work done so far and bearing in mind that the grounf floor lighting was mostley fire rated down lights. There were no left over materials apart from a few ends of cable reels and the materials alone came to £1500. I lost the job to someone who had quoted 'significantley cheeper'.

This morning I got a phone call from the 'customer' who had just paid their new 'electrician' for the completed job. As he was getting into his van he told her that she will need to get installation tested. The call was to ask me if I would be interested. I declinded as it was not in my interests to test and/or certify other poeples work, nor was I in a position to recomend any other electricians as I considered it unfair to place them in such a possition.

I know that some work is better than no work and that my responce may appear spitefull, but the legal implications of taking on the responcibility of unknown individuals work can lead to prison if it all goes wrong. Remember that it is your signature on the test cert. and if there is a fault not apparent in the electrical testing that causes damage, injury or death at any time in the future the insurance companies are going to come after you.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I went to price a kitchen rewire, another spark before me has already been to give a quote,

There is additions & alterations to the RFC
Water bonding
New cooker circuit
Alterations to lighting circuit
Core out for extractor

There is old rewireable fuse board, the customer agrees to a new dual RCD CU.
The first electrician has said already there's at least £300 just on changing your CU without touching anything else.

I know of this first electrician, he's an older chap who's fully registered and I'm sure knows his stuff and does a decent job issuing test certs and notification

A couple of days later i see his quote for £500 for the whole job, all materials and labour.

I can't compete at all with this! I'm getting this more and more lately and loosing out on jobs for people who are doing work for silly prices. I'd love to speak to this other sparks I'm loosing work to and ask them what there secret is? How do they do it?

Maybe you lot could tell me, is there some kind of electricians secret tool that allows you to first fix in an hour? Or maybe a special tool to help me second fix

That is something you younger lads will have to get use to, and sorry to say that when I do come home I will be the same as him.

He most likely does not have a mortgage, nor kids and will not need to buy new tools and will have got everything over the years.

He will not need the drimmels, or the fancy 36v SDS combo kit as time is not his driving factor, but the most important thing to a customer he is old, so therefore he must be experienced, must be trustworthy, must be sound.

So he is not needing nearly as much money to earn than a younger guy is needing. He will be quite happy getting 4 or 5 jobs a month that will cover his expenses such a scheme, insurance and virtually everything else will be pocket money.

 

[Welchyboy]

I find if you get recommended for the job you can generally make more money from it, if your getting work through advertising in the papers etc then you dont have that edge over anyone else who they ask to quote for the work

Most of all i find that first impressions and how you deal with a customer, how you present yourself and your business is what will be a decieding factor to winning the work, its a sales pitch like any other business, people mostly dont go for the cheapest quote all the time(you dont want work from these people anyway as they are normally problem clients), they will go for the best quote and with the person they feel they would trust and like
but obviously if your a few grand above everyone else then you probably aint gonna get the job either

 

[stan794]

Another knock back today - Wiring to new kitchen extension and new porch extension - New CU, 3 new lights, 2 external lights, 8 sockets, 2 mains fire alarms. The guy i am working with quoted her £700, she had a price for £490 blimey.