How do we make this job pay?

[needasparks]

As long as its acceptable to change a light bulb in your own garage and use that job to get qualified to work in the industry then the trail of poor work will continue.

They stand out like a sore thumb in the wholesalers in white plimpsoles and no socks !

 

[3wayselectrical]

Half the problem is that the new legislation is far too complcated and most customers are either confused or completely cluless as to what and what ins't work which requires a registered electrician. With six different registration bodies, most of whome the average person has never heard of and no real logical ruling on what is a restricted location; for instance kitchen, bathroom, out door installation but not utility room ( eh? ). It is all too easy for them to be led down the garden path as to who is or is not capable to do the work.
Why not have a simple liscence with your mug shot on it, issued to you as a cirtified electrician. A data base can be made to ensure that all your qualifications are up to date and a points sytem for transgressors. Your liscence fee is part of the cirtification cost which is either by exmination or assesement. If the work involved is anything more than changing a light bulb then its down to a qualified electrician who has to show the liscence to the punter before he starts the work. All that is needed then is the liscence number on the test cert and your signature and everybody knows whos done what when where and most of all properly.

 

[needasparks]

I seem to remember that Tommy Walsh trying to get that with the CSCS card but the only people that took it up was the big construction companies.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Half the problem is that the new legislation is far too complcated and most customers are either confused or completely cluless as to what and what ins't work which requires a registered electrician. With six different registration bodies, most of whome the average person has never heard of and no real logical ruling on what is a restricted location; for instance kitchen, bathroom, out door installation but not utility room ( eh? ). It is all too easy for them to be led down the garden path as to who is or is not capable to do the work.
Why not have a simple liscence with your mug shot on it, issued to you as a cirtified electrician. A data base can be made to ensure that all your qualifications are up to date and a points sytem for transgressors. Your liscence fee is part of the cirtification cost which is either by exmination or assesement. If the work involved is anything more than changing a light bulb then its down to a qualified electrician who has to show the liscence to the punter before he starts the work. All that is needed then is the liscence number on the test cert and your signature and everybody knows whos done what when where and most of all properly.

Not sure of your age old mate but I was told back in 1970 that this is what was coming into force. A body that will register you and ensure that proper qualified electricians can only work on electrics .............it was called the JIB and I had to do a JIB approved apprenticeship, which I did. and it never ever got off the ground, in the end it was never a legislated body as such, just the start of us having to pay someone for doing something for us.

41 yrs later we are still wanting a licence but unfortunately it will never come because we have too many limbs to our electrical tree. Would you have grades of licence, such a DI one, an alarms one, a UPS one, perhaps a fire alarms one, or an industrial one, or perhaps a off shore one or explosive environments one, the list would be endless and we have this all with the JIB.

Unfortunately IMO there is no real training for an "electrician" or very little. You can't train apprentices to be rounded electricians when there is very little industry to train them on, or very little variety on commercial installations the scope is not there now and the whole industry is in turmoil.

As an apprentice I done fire alarms, single and 3 phase installation, wired control panels, learnt how to run containment and how to pull in 240mm armoured, how to run data cables in offices and install industrial kitchens and laundries and even managed to rewire a few houses when projects were on hold. Wonder what licence I would get.

 

[Engineer54]

Not sure of your age old mate but I was told back in 1970 that this is what was coming into force. A body that will register you and ensure that proper qualified electricians can only work on electrics .............it was called the JIB and I had to do a JIB approved apprenticeship, which I did. and it never ever got off the ground, in the end it was never a legislated body as such, just the start of us having to pay someone for doing something for us.

41 yrs later we are still wanting a licence but unfortunately it will never come because we have too many limbs to our electrical tree. Would you have grades of licence, such a DI one, an alarms one, a UPS one, perhaps a fire alarms one, or an industrial one, or perhaps a off shore one or explosive environments one, the list would be endless and we have this all with the JIB.

Unfortunately IMO there is no real training for an "electrician" or very little. You can't train apprentices to be rounded electricians when there is very little industry to train them on, or very little variety on commercial installations the scope is not there now and the whole industry is in turmoil.

As an apprentice I done fire alarms, single and 3 phase installation, wired control panels, learnt how to run containment and how to pull in 240mm armoured, how to run data cables in offices and install industrial kitchens and laundries and even managed to rewire a few houses when projects were on hold. Wonder what licence I would get.

Trainee 1st grade. You haven't got the latest buckshee C&G numbers.....Only the old one's, so you can't be that much cop!! Right?? ...lol!!!

 

[malcolmsanford]

I have the 2382 and the 2377 so I must be approved at least

 

[Engineer54]

I have the 2382 and the 2377 so I must be approved at least

To be totally honest now, i haven't got a clue what C&G certs i've got, i think there were around 5 or 6 of them in total. vaguely remember, a something 60 being on one or two of them. Never needed to produce them, only my ever needed my O and H diplomas once or twice.

Maybe my sister still has them somewhere after my parents house clearing when my mother passed away, i'll have to ask her...lol!! They must still be in the original envelopes too if she does have them. ...lol!!

But on the other hand, my Degree and Chartership has so many bits of red ribbon and wax seals on them, from various British embassies and other bodies attesting their validity, ...they are almost unrecognisable anymore ...lol!!

 

[Specialist]

[2 months into the job said customer phones me in tears, they have been living in a hotel for 2 months with a 1 month old baby and said electrician still felt it would be another 8 weeks.

Another 8 WEEKS!! - the sparky must have been doing it on the side out of hours!!![/QUOTE]

Yep & even then he must have been working at a snails pace.

 

[Specialist]

Would they be the installers that part p was supposed to get rid of? Hehe

Fat chance of that happening.

 

[trev]

We can live in hope specialist but I think you're right

 

[Specialist]

We can live in hope specialist but I think you're right

Maybe Just me but it seems Part P has'nt made it harder for the Cowboys to do Domestic work, it's made it harder for the Legitimate Honest Spark to get Domestic work & get a decent rate for it. It's made the Local Authorities a good chunk of cash though.

 

[hyperloop]

I don't understand how it costs you £5000 per year, this is my breakdown - £400 elecsa
£75 public liability insurance
£100 calibration
no bank charges (look for a new business account)
£400 mot,tax and insurance of van
I do my own tax return online which costs nothing
As for the price list you gave of parts for the rewire with 47 downlights (fire rated), 44 double sockets, and 100m 2.5 and 1.5mm T&E I could get all that for around £800, why commission on parts!!??
garages charge £50 per hour because of theyre business premises and theyre jobs tend to take less time. how many callouts have you had where you've spent an hour finding a fault and putting it right and charged less than £50. But a rewire is different £50 per hour would make it prohibitively expensive. Im not being argumentative but its important to cut costs wherever possible to keep competitive, try doing your tax return yourself , look for a new parts supplier and negotiate deals - if you want 47 downlights ask for a discount or phone around the wholesalers are having a tough time to, so they should give you a decent discount to get the order.

 

[trev]

Once again specialist you're dead right but you forgot to add it's also made an obscene amount for the CPS operators who are supposed to be policing the honest spark who registers (NB No mention of the total lack of interest in the dog rough chancers who change a lamp and get their CPS membership then leave a trail of havoc behind them and their dodgy installations)

 

[Specialist]

Hi Trev: Yes your right mate, I did miss that out. It's just the mention of Part P & Cowboys tends to make a Red mist descend over me Lol.

 

[spark 68]

but its important to cut costs wherever possible to keep competitive

I agree with most of what you say, but (there is always a but), why should I give the client MY trade discount ?

What about the time taken to do the design work, even if this is just to select the correct parts ?, and running around to pick the items up ?

What if you have to replace a failed item under warranty ?, sure the wholesaler will replace the item FOC, but you still have to re-fit FOC.

Iam not talking about seriously overcharging or ripping the client off, just a sensible markup.

 

[hyperloop]

I just see trade prices as my way of keeping my prices competitive, as long as Im earning a decent amount for my work, Im not worried about earning on the parts, and this keeps my quotes competitive.

 

[Deleted member 19807]

I charge a min of 5% on all parts supplied just to cover getting them and returns.

 

[Octopus]

I don't understand how it costs you £5000 per year, this is my breakdown - £400 elecsa
£75 public liability insurance
£100 calibration
no bank charges (look for a new business account)
£400 mot,tax and insurance of van
I do my own tax return online which costs nothing

If you don't mind I'll make a few observations:

1. Where are the costs for repair/replacement of your van
2. Do your own tax return - are you certain that you can maximise your position
3. Advertising??
4. PPE??
5. Elecsa is more than £400
6. Replacing tools

So are you certain that you have a handle on your costs and overheads?

 

[ayjay]

posters in this thread mentioned that a house rewire would take abt 2 weeks, some years ago i used to rewire council houses(on a price) , and always completed 2 propertys per week, (5 days)inc plastering chases and making good
these were all occupied btw

 

[roukel01]

If you don't mind I'll make a few observations:

1. Where are the costs for repair/replacement of your van
2. Do your own tax return - are you certain that you can maximise your position
3. Advertising??
4. PPE??
5. Elecsa is more than £400
6. Replacing tools

So are you certain that you have a handle on your costs and overheads?

And we seem to be forgetting the TIME it takes to do all of these things. Invoicing, going out to see jobs, the time it takes to do tax returns if you want to do them yourself, this is all time you have to account for. Time is money!!
Also the day it takes for the assesment, again the time it takes to prepare for an assesment. The time on the phone negotiating cheaper prices for materials. Someone has to pay for it? Unless you like working into the evenings for free.

I really cannot understand anyone not wanting to make a little on materials, its just outrageous. Again, the cut you make helps towards the time it takes for you to work out what you need, the time it takes to order it, and as mentioned, any returns that have to be dealt with. You don't walk into a shop or indeed a wholesaler and expect them to be selling you materials at no profit?

Luckily with the discounts we get on materials, we usually invoice materials out for less than trade price. You should see the smile on my face when a clueless customer requests that my materials are at trade prices thinking they are negotiating a good deal!

Oh and the bank charges, theres only so many times you can change accounts, and eventually you end up paying bank charges. I had to put £2200 cash in the other day for the van I sold, I got charged nearly £13 for the transaction!!!