Induction or Ceramic hob

[Steviecuk]

Hi peeps.

I am just about to do up my kitchen and currently have a gas hob but want to change it to either induction or ceramic but have found that most of these are around the 32amp mark.

I have a dedicated 32a fuse running to my cooker via a cooker switch (about half a meter from where the hob is to go) and wondered what my options were for installation? There is a fused spur already under the hob for the spark in the gas hood but know that would probably not be in play for a hob, even if the overall fuse for my sockets is 32a.

If I ended up getting a spark in, would he have to run a new dedicated 32a run to the hob or something else?
Is there a way of upping the fuse in the fuse board, and then having some sort of two way fused switch at 32a each where the old switch was and then split off to the oven and hob that way?

Thanks ,
Steve

 

[HandySparks]

I'd just put both the hob and oven together on the 32A circuit.

 

[The Ghost]

I'm not sure you are right about 32a for the hob surely?

 

[ruston]

As above.
Not likely to need extra supply. That would mean you would have two circuits capable of 32amp.
Is it just a standard oven. And do you know the cable size .

For both posts lol, to slow

 

[Richard Burns]

A 13 A fused spur would not be appropriate or adaptable to supply a normal hob.
As Handy Sparks has said if you have an easy run (behind cabinets perhaps) from the oven connection to the hob location, then changing the current cooker outlet plate for the oven to a dual outlet plate and running a cable from there to the hob would be the easiest solution.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I would have a gas hob over a ceramic/induction hob. I have an induction hob at home and cant stand it.

 

[Steviecuk]

Thanks for your replies everyone.

32a? Yes they all seem to be up that high. Zanussi ZEM6740FBA 59cm Induction Hob - Black - http://ao.com/product/zem6740fba-zanussi-induction-hob-black-29358-39.aspx like this one, under installation at the bottom.

The existing oven is a Whirlpool double electric oven which I am guessing would pull quite a lot. I am also not sure of the cable size (tucked away behind oven at the mo) but it is larger than normal, maybe 4mm or close to it.

I initially thought I could just split it at the cooker switch but then thought that if both appliances were running at full whack, they would pull over the 32a. Is the not correct?

Thanks again for your responses.
Steve.

 

[HandySparks]

...but then thought that if both appliances were running at full whack, they would pull over the 32a. Is the not correct?

You may well be able to draw more than 32A for a short period of time. But neither the oven or the hob will require full power for more than a few minutes. In practice, with the typical diversity of cooking appliances in a domestic kitchen, you won't have a problem. After all, if you push more than 7kW into a kitchen for long periods, it'll get pretty warm.

 

[ruston]

And the pans will have no bottom left in them.

 

[Rpa07]

I would have a gas hob over a ceramic/induction hob. I have an induction hob at home and cant stand it.

I'm with Lee on that one, gas hob, electric oven - even the chefs like it that way and 'they' cook food!

 

[ruston]

Me too , those solid rings are worse than useless , halogen are no better in my opinion.

 

[HandySparks]

We changed from gas hob to induction hob a year ago. My wife (who does almost all the cooking) was skeptical, but the hob needed replacing anyway, so I thought it was worth a try. She now says that the induction hob is better than gas. It's just as controllable but it's faster to heat up a pan.

Ours is an AEG HK654200FB. In max heat mode it'll run a ring at 4kW, but only for a limited time, after which, the pan's hot and it drops the power back if it's not already turned down.


ps, only downside of an electric hob is that you can't cook on it in a power cut. So I bought a camping gas burner for £12 for use as a backup.

 

[Steviecuk]

Thanks again for your replies. The reason I want a ceramic or induction hob is that my kitchen is very limited for space and so having a worktop that I can effectively work on swell would be great. Plus I'm going for the new modern look with a revealed brick effect wall so think the gloss black glass look will be better than aluminium gas.

Thanks for your advice, I know which way I'll go now. One last question if I may, I am not a qualified electrician but do know my way somewhat around electrics, if only the practical side.

1. Has anyone seen if you can get a double cooker switch so that I can have both appliances switchable (and theoretically take away my need for splitting it it a junction box)

2. In splitting this cable, SHOULD it be signed off by someone as part of any regulations or anything?

Thanks again, I really appreciate your advice.
Steve

 

[Rpa07]

ps, only downside of an electric hob is that you can't cook on it in a power cut. So I bought a camping gas burner for £12 for use as a backup.

I take it that you keep the camping stove on the work top at all times! You can never be too ready!

To the OP. The two appliances can be switched through the same and then using a outlet plate as post 5 from Richard (nice bit of kit that is). If you are to isolate for a problem I can't think of a reason why you would need the other still working so both isolated will work and look more pleasing.

 

[Wilko]

2. In splitting this cable, SHOULD it be signed off by someone as part of any regulations or anything?

Hi Steve, this will likely be Minor Works and so will not require reporting to your Local Building Control, but you should read up and confirm. There is a Minor Works form here in the Resources section that'll give you a start. Hopefully my attempt to copy and paste the link works :
MEIWC - PDF form (editable) - BS7671 Amendment 3:2015 model form - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/resources/meiwc-pdf-form-editable-bs7671-amendment-3-2015-model-form.110/

In #7 you mentioned you may have 4mm2 cable feeding the existing ovens. This is only ok for 32A if it's installed a particular way (clipped direct). Hopefully you've actually got 6mm2 and this will be better to handle the proposed change.

 

[Steviecuk]

Hopefully you've actually got 6mm2 and this will be better to handle the proposed change.

Thanks. To be honest, now that I think about it, only really having done stuff with 2.5 and 1.5 T&E in the past, I would said it was more like triple the thickness of normal 2.5 rather than just double so I reckon it might be 6mm. I will check when the oven is pulled out the carcus next.
Thanks for the form too. I will go through it tonight and have a look.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Thanks for the form too. I will go through it tonight and have a look.

The form is a certificate for the work that you/whoever has done complies with BS7671. To be able to fill the form in you would need
1. to know what the requirements of BS7671 are
and
2. Have a set of calibrated test instruments that can undertake all of the tests.

I'm guessing that you might not have either of these!

However, doing the work you describe, in your own kitchen, is not notifiable to anybody. Just get on with it, safely./

 

[Steviecuk]

Just get on with it, safely./

I was hoping for this. Thank you.

 

[Steviecuk]

I have just removed the cooker switch plate and found that there is already two sets of wires coming out of it. Is this likely (I will check for definite) that one goes to the oven (obviously) but that the other one goes to the fused spur that the hob was hard wired into (currently used on the gas hob for spark ignitor)? Personally (and I'm not a spark) but if I was and doing the original install, I would probably have wired it this way in case joe public decided to just wire up an electric job to the spur like I'm asking about in the future as a safety precaution? Or is this common and the second wire normally goes somewhere else?

 

[Steviecuk]

Scrap that last question, just tested and there is continuity between the cooker switch and the fused spur so it looks like its all ok. Now before I do anything, would it be acceptable to just get rid of the 13a fused spur and put in a normal junction box and hard wire the new hob to that?

 

[ruston]

ps, only downside of an electric hob is that you can't cook on it in a power cut. So I bought a camping gas burner for £12 for use as a backup.

I had one too , I used to carry one when I was working in the sticks to get a decent cup of tea, hot snacks , etc.
Any ---- can rough it lol.

 

[ruston]

Scrap that last question, just tested and there is continuity between the cooker switch and the fused spur so it looks like its all ok. Now before I do anything, would it be acceptable to just get rid of the 13a fused spur and put in a normal junction box and hard wire the new hob to that?

Put in what is shown and suggested by Richard in post 5.

 

[Steviecuk]

Put in what is shown and suggested by Richard in post 5.

So just to be 100% clear, cut a hole above the socket switch, take the second wire out of the existing cooker switch and fit it inline with the splitter in post 5 with the cable still wired to the switch? That way the splitting is done external to the switch.

I'm not questioning you as I don't know myself, but why is it better to do it that way than to just leave the two cables coming directly out of the switch?

 

[ruston]

Do it as shown in the pic . One wire from the outlet to the hob and the other one to the oven .
Looking at your pic the wires are suitable , testing will confirm this.
It is a neater job than just having the cables coming out of the cooker switch; if that is what you are asking.

 

[Rpa07]

I had one too , I used to carry one when I was working in the sticks to get a decent cup of tea, hot snacks , etc.
Any ---- can rough it lol.

All the chippies I've met so far all have one on their hi top vans, I can imagine them whittling a rudimentary shack for their lunch times. Strange bunch, chippies!

 

[Steviecuk]

Hi Rpa, I don't know if I was describing it well enough. At the moment there is one common going into the cooker switch, then there is two load cables coming out, one to the oven and one to a fused spur. ALL wires hidden behind the wall.

My options from what I can see are...

A) Leave the cooker switch as it is with the two load cables splitting at the point of the cooker switch and just replace the fused spur with a junction box so that I can wire the flex from the hob into.

_______ COOKIER SWITCH _________ OVEN
................................l_____________ JUNCTION BOX _____ HOB


OR

B) Take the fused spur cable out of the back of the cooker switch, splice the OVEN lead that is still coming out of the switch and put the splitter in as per post 5, and then run the cables to the oven and hob respectively.

_______ COOKIER SWITCH _____ SPLITTER ____ OVEN
....................................................l_____________ JUNCTION BOX _____ HOB

 

[Rpa07]

Yes, as you do have the two feeds coming from the cooker switch, which is your isolation, you can put single cable outlets for the two separate appliances. Do you know the size of the feed into the cooker switch and the size of the two out from the switch. If they are substantial enough, in this case 4mm to 6 mm as was mentioned earlier (post #15) then that'll make your life easier.

 

[Taylortwocities]

B is better.

Also, make sure that the cables that you use are 6mm2.

 

[telectrix]

to me it looks like a case of just changing the hob socket for a 45A cooker outlet, leaving al the rest as is. just a quick check of tightness of connections. with moving them, they occasionally need a tweak.

 

[Risteard]

I would have a gas hob over a ceramic/induction hob. I have an induction hob at home and cant stand it.

I love my induction hob. I replaced the gas hob after the gas tank froze solid a number of times in the bad winters. (Mains gas wasn't available until more recently and still isn't that common.) In my opinion the induction hob is every bit as controllable as gas and you can heat a pan of water in no time with boost.

 

[ruston]

They look like 6mm and 4mm to me .
The outlet shown in post 5 can easily take 10mm . option B if I am understanding you correctly.
Click 45a Easyfit Dual Cooker Appliance Outlet Plate - https://www.alertelectrical.com/click-45a-easyfit-dual-cooker-appliance-outlet-plate.html

 

[Steviecuk]

option B if I am understanding you correctly.

I need to measure the size of the cables exactly, but I have drawn a diagram by hand of what it's like now (A) of which I would like to just be able to change the '13a fuse' to an oven outlet thing and wire the flex from the new job into that.

And option B using the splitter/dual outlet. However that one will involve cutting into the plasterboard wall, unwiring the socket completely and hiding the splitter box into the wall. Basically a bit more work so I'm hoping that I can just use the spur thatbis already there. Especially as it's already wired to the 32A line and just needs a change of fuse spur to an outlet.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Personally, I don't like unnecessary junctions, especially where higher-currents are involved.
Better to cable direct from the dual outlet directly to the oven and hob.

 

[Rpa07]

Personally, I don't like unnecessary junctions, especially where higher-currents are involved.
Better to cable direct from the dual outlet directly to the oven and hob.

To the OP - as quote above. The double outlet is designed to give your feed strait to the appliance or socket outlet so if designed well with measurements, provide enough cable of the right CSA to terminate direct.

 

[ruston]

As both above , still B but direct from dual outlet , no further junctions needed.
Sorry didn't reply sooner , Just got back from Mexico lol.

 

[Steviecuk]

Thanks for your replies. Please don't think I'm questioning you, I just want to learn, but why is it better to have that's dual splitter and not just keep it as it is with two twin and earth cables coming straight out of the cooker switch? Is there a reason or is it just how you like to do things?

 

[ruston]

Nothing to stop you keeping it as it is if it compliant .
It depends on the situation in your kitchen . Usually the oven and hob are in close proximity so directly below the cooker circuit isolator switch you would usually have an outlet the same as, or similar to the one shown.
As you can see wired from an outlet allows you to replace an appliance without disturbing the fixed wiring.
As long as it is compliant , and preferably neat , really it is fine either way you do it.

 

[Steviecuk]

Thanks Ruston. I mean I'm guessing it's compliant as it's from the original install when the house was built (only 8 years ago).

My issue is that the oven is about 3 meters away from where the hob will be. It's in a tall larder unit as it's a double oven so not next to the hob. If I was to put the dual splitter in I would have to rip the wall apart to find the original wiring behind it just to put the dual splitter in. Then hide it all behind the wall again. Thats why I was hoping to leave it as is and just change the 13A fused spur at the end of the current hob spur.

 

[Midwest]

First off, I would recommend the employment of a competent electrician, to carry out this work.

Either way is suitable, just make sure you have sufficient depth box behind cooker outlet, 47mm minimum and that the faceplate can accept the cables you are going to terminate inside it. If this is a new kitchen, then the cables can be run in the service void behind the units, I normally use the plinth area. The only bit that would need flushing in, is between worktop and faceplate, unless your going for the rustic look!

By the by, the glass surface of a ceramic/induction hobs are a real nightmare to keep clean, even with propriety cleaners!

 

[Rpa07]

"By the by, the glass surface of a ceramic/induction hobs are a real nightmare to keep clean, even with propriety cleaners!"

Way to bring the party down @Midwest - bummer! Parties over everyone, go home -and take your special magnetic saucepans with you!

 

[HandySparks]

By the by, the glass surface of a ceramic/induction hobs are a real nightmare to keep clean, even with propriety cleaners!

Have you experienced this with induction hobs? I would expect them to be easier to keep clean than the ordinary ceramic hobs because their surface temperature will be much lower.

 

[Midwest]

This thread starting to feel like it should belong in some cookery forum
Experienced it with a ceramic hob, I know someone who has an induction hob. I could ask......

 

[FatAlan]

We have an induction job which is great for keeping clean. You have to make sure you have iron based pans that have completely flat bases. They heat up really quick and are easy to control so would beat a halogen any day however from a pure cooking point of view I prefer gas. On the plus side I have a mother in law who loves cleaning and loves polishing our induction job even more!

 

[telectrix]

trying to do toast on an induction hob is a nightmare. gimme gas every time.

 

[Midwest]

Could get the missus to breath on it

 

[FatAlan]

Try adding a few iron filings!

 

[telectrix]

breathe even.