Installation of home charging point for electric car.

[Big Sausage]

Aren't you also required to notify the DNO when installing a EV car charging point due to the addional loading requirements?

 

[Richard Burns]

If the customer has asked you to install a 32A commando socket then that is what you do really.
If the customer then decides to plug in an electric car to that socket that is up to him, you cannot dictate what the use to which a socket may be put. To meet the charging safety requirements the charger being used should be independently adequately protected.
If the car were charging on a BS1363 socket it could also be a general use socket.
However if you do have a TT system then this does simplify the install even if you do take account of the charging point requirements it is only the type A / B RCD protection that causes hassle, but most car charging units have these fitted anyway.
Does the current guidance still have the domestic "we know what is going to happen" exclusion for TNCS systems?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

If the customer has asked you to install a 32A commando socket then that is what you do really.
If the customer then decides to plug in an electric car to that socket that is up to him, you cannot dictate what the use to which a socket may be put. To meet the charging safety requirements the charger being used should be independently adequately protected.
If the car were charging on a BS1363 socket it could also be a general use socket.
However if you do have a TT system then this does simplify the install even if you do take account of the charging point requirements it is only the type A / B RCD protection that causes hassle, but most car charging units have these fitted anyway.
Does the current guidance still have the domestic "we know what is going to happen" exclusion for TNCS systems?

Do you mean with regards PME and earthing for electric cars Richard?

 

[Richard Burns]

Yes 722.411.4.1 I believe is still current so practicality can take over if the supply is TNCS (PME).
(Now that I have looked it up, I really ought to read the current regs!)

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Me too, just got to buy them first.

 

[Richard Burns]

I unwrapped them specially for my assessment!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Have to admit I still automatically pick up the BGB, even though the BYB is right next to it! The BGB has all my notes and scribblings in it... but it doesn't have section 722 which I am embarrassed to say I did not realise existed.

Thanks again Lee.

 

[Flanders]

I thought there were company's going around fitting car charging points for free from some government scheme I have seen 2 houses myself who have had them fitted and don't even have a car to charge up, may be worth having a look into it

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Yes 722.411.4.1 I believe is still current so practicality can take over if the supply is TNCS (PME).
(Now that I have looked it up, I really ought to read the current regs!)

The 'wiring matters' aricle (View attachment 2012_44_autumn_wiring_matters_Electric_vehicles_and_PME.pdf) stated that you could not use PME earth for a charging point :

"Without data, the committee was
unable to conclude that the risk of usinga PME earth was low enough to consider
a PME earthing arrangement suitable to
supply charging equipment for outdoor
connecting points."

It does go on to say :

"Subsequent to this decision, and
recognising that there are limited
options available to the installer, as well
as other risks associated with using a TT
system, IET Standards Ltd agreed to
commission a risk analysis to determine
the risk associated with using PME
supplies. The objective is to carry out a
quantitative evaluation of the increased
level of risk associated with using a PME
supply for outdoor connecting points.
IET Standards Ltd has commissioned
the Health and Safety Laboratory (HSL)
to carry out this work. The programme
started in July and is due to finish in
September. The findings of the HSL will
be published in a report, which will be
made publicly available."

I'm assuming this research has been incorporated into section 722? Does anyone know where we could find the results from this study?

ps.. sorry for varying size writing!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I thought there were company's going around fitting car charging points for free from some government scheme I have seen 2 houses myself who have had them fitted and don't even have a car to charge up, may be worth having a look into it

Yes, that would be good Flanders. I'll start ringing around and hopefully, eventually find someone who will do it for free. I'll then contact the client and say 'Merry Christmas, ring this number and dont worry about paying me!"

Only kidding I'll mention it to them, but I expect they have already looked into this as he's a pretty clued up client.

 

[Midwest]

Someone could buy this book; Code of Practice for Electric Vehicle Charging Equipment Installation 2nd Edition - The IET

and perhaps we it might help us all? I'm doing an extension at the mo, was going to suggest to the customer about running a cable in for a car charger, as a future proof thing. Don't think I'll bother :speechless:

 

[Flanders]

Ok Only a thought I think the company's are doing it just to make money from the government, like free loft insulation etc, i would not recommend one of these company's to do the work as what i seen was a bit shoddy

 

[Kamikaze]

As a matter of interest, are all car battery charge leads universal or are there differed types for differed models?

 

[uksparks]

As a matter of interest, are all car battery charge leads universal or are there differed types for differed models?

It depends if it's a Japanese car or a European car, so it will either be a type 1 or type 2 connector. They look similar.

 

[Midwest]

Found this gov doc; https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...nce-for-manufacturers-and-installers-2015.pdf

which as uksparks says, different types of sockets, and can include grants for customer. I see that there are 3kw chargers for overnight charging, 7.2kw for 4hr charging, which looks to become the norm for the time being. There are faster chargers, 22kw +, which I think would be beyond the scope of most domestic properties, designed for topping up your spaceship when you get to work!

uksparks, did you do the course?

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...orum/88166-electric-vehicle-charging-pme.html

 

[Kamikaze]

It depends if it's a Japanese car or a European car, so it will either be a type 1 or type 2 connector. They look similar.

By Japanese, do you mean imports or all Jap cars in general?

 

[Midwest]

Or take one of these courses and tell us how to do it HHD; https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/cou...rging-course?gclid=CKPk_ufB9MkCFda4GwodmKkGDw

From some pdf's on the subject, whilst we wait for uksparks
'Install an isolating transformer in the electric vehicle charging equipment circuit to separate the supply earthing arrangement from the equipment'.

And IET pdf; Regulation 722.411.4.1 does not allowPME as a means of earthing for an electric vehicle charging point where the charging point or the vehicle is located outdoors except where 722.411.4.1(i) or 722.411.4.1(ii) or 722.411.4.1(iii) apply. There is an exception for a dwelling if none of (i), (ii), or (iii) is reasonably practicable. It is worth noting that in this regulation the meaning of ‘dwelling’ is restricted to a self-contained unit designed to accommodate a single household. Regulation722.411.4.1(i) refers to a situation where a connecting point is supplied from a three-phase installation used to supply loads other than charging points and where the load is sufficiently well balanced. Regulation 722.411.4.1(ii) requires a very low resistance earth electrode tomitigate the effects of an open circuit PEN conductor fault on the supply. Regulation 722.411.4.1(iii) also require san earth electrode. Regulation722.411.4.1(iii) is based on the installation requirements (from the 14th edition wiring regulations) for a voltage operated earth leakage circuit breaker. However, the device differs from the BS 842 voltage operated earth leakage
circuit breaker. A product standard for a protective device for the purposes of (iii) is being developed by BSI Committee PEL/23/1.
The touch voltage threshold of 70V mentioned in 722.411.4.1(i) and 722.411.4.1(ii) and 722.411.4.1(iii) is on the basis that Table 2c (Ventricular fibrillation for alternating current 50/60Hz) of IEC 60479-5[ed1.0] gives a value of 71V for both-hands-to-feet, in water-wet conditions with medium contact area (12.5cm2).
I'll let your more eductaed bods, pick the bones out of that. Yawn, tired now. Soon be Xmas. :yawn:

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Without access to the new Regs, all I can say is: As far as I am aware, the prohibition on using a PME earthing point, relates to street furniture, and not to home charging points.

 

[Kamikaze]

Without access to the new Regs, all I can say is: As far as I am aware, the prohibition on using a PME earthing point, relates to street furniture, and not to home charging points.

You could be right there! How would the ordinary man or woman in the street know whether it’s safe to plug their car in if these leads are readily available. They can’t possibly know what the earthing arrangements are.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

You could be right there! How would the ordinary man or woman in the street know whether it’s safe to plug their car in if these leads are readily available. They can’t possibly know what the earthing arrangements are.
View attachment 31027

Thats a good point! The regs (722) actually say you can use a designated standard BS1363-2 socket. Like you said, how does the client know if they have a PME or TT??

Plus, could anyone shed light on why the installation would need its own seperate RCD? Apart from the nuisance value with an RCD that protects more than one circuit are there any other reasons why the reg would state this?