IR Test on 12v Downlighters

[phawk]

Can anyone help me please?

I've just finished re-wiring a property, with nearly all lighting on 12v downlighters. Not too sure how to carry out the IR at 500v, as I'm assuming it will blow the transformers. To make it easy they're also all on dimmers lol! I know I have to disconnect the dimmers but can't really disconnect 40 installed spots. Should I just do the test at 250v and note it? I want to make sure it's done correctly as I may use this job for my Napit inspection.

Thanks

Paul

 

[Octopus]

Not being picky but what are you going to say to your assessor when he asks you about Part "L"?

 

[telectrix]

link L and N and test from there to E. ideally, the IR testing should be done before the transformers are connected.

 

[telectrix]

part L is a joke. install a % of low energy lamps to save the planet, then go ahead and fit a 10.5kW shower and a 15kW cooker. FFS. save a penny and spend a pound comes to mind.

 

[Guitarist]

Can anyone help me please?

I've just finished re-wiring a property, with nearly all lighting on 12v downlighters. Not too sure how to carry out the IR at 500v, as I'm assuming it will blow the transformers. To make it easy they're also all on dimmers lol! I know I have to disconnect the dimmers but can't really disconnect 40 installed spots. Should I just do the test at 250v and note it? I want to make sure it's done correctly as I may use this job for my Napit inspection.

Thanks

Paul

Paul, if you have just rewired it, then the IR testing should have been done before you connected all those units, as tel says. As punishment, disconnect them all and test the cable properly!

 

[telectrix]

and write out 100 times " i must do all my dead tests before connecting sensitive equipment".

and in the immortal words " don't do it again"

 

[Octopus]

part L is a joke. install a % of low energy lamps to save the planet, then go ahead and fit a 10.5kW shower and a 15kW cooker. FFS. save a penny and spend a pound comes to mind.

Completely agree, but the OP needs to have a plausible answer in case his assessor is one of those perdantic soles!

 

[Adam]

Don't forget to do insulation resistance tests at each transformer to ensure they comply with 612.4.1 :tongue3:

 

[phawk]

Badly phrased, I've only finished 1st fix, so downliighters aren't installed yet. In hindsight, I may be taking them back and swapping them for 240v. Seems like headache for no reward. At least with 240v I can test in situ and they can replace GU10's with energy savers (if they really want to spend money!)

Thanks everyone.

 

[DaveyD]

If they don't want to replace how are you going to achieve 75% energy eff in the property?

 

[Adam]

If they don't want to replace how are you going to achieve 75% energy eff in the property?

You can buy GU10 fittings that only accept Compact Fluorescent lamps.

 

[D Skelton]

nearly all lighting on 12v

By next time you'll have realised how silly that decision was and stick to using 230V then you can test away to your hearts content before you put the bulbs in.

 

[nickblake]

so to test get some 2 way lever wago's and join the wires at the point of the down lighters then test the whole circuit as you have said you have not insalled them yet ,but the waty to do it is as tel has said join L and N to gether and test between earth and the note it on the cert

 

[Guitarist]

Can anyone help me please?

I've just finished re-wiring a property, with nearly all lighting on 12v downlighters. Not too sure how to carry out the IR at 500v, as I'm assuming it will blow the transformers. To make it easy they're also all on dimmers lol! I know I have to disconnect the dimmers but can't really disconnect 40 installed spots. Should I just do the test at 250v and note it? I want to make sure it's done correctly as I may use this job for my Napit inspection.

Thanks

Paul

No problem testing then mate. Definitely sounded from your op that you had connected them already tho

 

[tank]

link L and N and test from there to E. ideally, the IR testing should be done before the transformers are connected.

hello telectrix, if the linking L and N together and then testing to earth is an acceptable method of IR testing, why do you say that ideally the IR testing should be done before the transformers are connected?

similarly, guitarist said " disconnect them all and test the cable properly"

i'm struggling with how a test which is acceptable is also not proper or not ideal

 

[Guitarist]

hello telectrix, if the linking L and N together and then testing to earth is an acceptable method of IR testing, why do you say that ideally the IR testing should be done before the transformers are connected?

similarly, guitarist said " disconnect them all and test the cable properly"

i'm struggling with how a test which is acceptable is also not proper or not ideal

The "limited" test is available where full testing is completely impracticle. For example, to test a warehouse full of hi-bay lighting which would take not only a very long time, but would be very costly to hire in specialist equipment and disconnect every unit, would be considered impracticle. Spending a couple of hours in a domestic situation would really just be part of the job imo. If you, as the tester, can justify why you didn't carry out full testing, then that's up to you.
We can only advise as we see the situation, and we do so free of charge. If you want definitive answers, and for us to take responsibility for your work, then we can always put down our paypal account numbers and you guys can pay us a nice consultation fee

 

[telectrix]

cheques made payable to Consultation And Specialist Help. or just use the initials ......C.A.S.H.

 

[tank]

The "limited" test is available where full testing is completely impracticle. For example, to test a warehouse full of hi-bay lighting which would take not only a very long time, but would be very costly to hire in specialist equipment and disconnect every unit, would be considered impracticle. Spending a couple of hours in a domestic situation would really just be part of the job imo. If you, as the tester, can justify why you didn't carry out full testing, then that's up to you.
We can only advise as we see the situation, and we do so free of charge. If you want definitive answers, and for us to take responsibility for your work, then we can always put down our paypal account numbers and you guys can pay us a nice consultation fee

i asked my question straight down the line because i didn't know the answer and for no other reason. i'm still learning. i had hoped you and telectrix could help me by sharing some of your knowledge and experience without me having to pay a consultation fee.

 

[nickblake]

One of the problems with sensitive equipment is IR testing if you have first fixed and nothing else then link all the loops together and test the cables out , if the transformers are in circuit then you stand a chance of damaging them as you are aware im sure , so if you reduce the voltage to 250 volts so not to damage the transformer, when you carry out the IR test across the L and N it will fail due to the electronics in the transformer , so realistically IR should be done before the transformers have been fitted , if they are fitted as tel has said tes with the L and N linked the across them to earth , or L to earth Then N to Earth but never N to L at 500 volts with sensitive equipment in circuit , but always note which way you have carried out the tests on the certificate IE. IR testing carried out L and N linked to earth due to sensitive electronic equipment being in circuit. or some thing like that

 

[EddieB]

So me get this straight, you take the inspector to this installation, he then asks you to IR test this particular circuit, you then go upstairs to the main bedroom(assuming these lights are in the lounge/dinning room) move the all furniture, lift the carpet, lift the floorboards, isolate the transformers (all of them) carry out the test with him in attendance, he gives you the nod you go back upstairs and put everything back. I dont think so do you?

 

[Guitarist]

i asked my question straight down the line because i didn't know the answer and for no other reason. i'm still learning. i had hoped you and telectrix could help me by sharing some of your knowledge and experience without me having to pay a consultation fee.

We are always happy to help mate, I think you know that. What we are all getting a bit fed up with on the forum (not talking about you now) are the rude idiots who come on here demanding that we tell them how to do something very simple, then when we either don't tell them what they want to hear, or we try to have some friendly banter, they get all arsey with us and have a rant about how sarcastic we all are.
I'll tell you something for nought now, a hell of a lot of these so-called electricians who have learned the trade on a test bench wouldn't last five minutes on a proper apprenticeship!
Btw, the quote you gave of me answered your question quite well I thought.

 

[phawk]

Just saying thanks to those who gave me helpful answers, plenty of useful info for the future. I swapped the 12v ones for 240v today. Will make life much easier.

Btw, wasn't expecting it to kick off on my thread, deep breaths aaaaaaaaand relax lol.

 

[trev]

Deleted

 

[trev]

i asked my question straight down the line because i didn't know the answer and for no other reason. i'm still learning. i had hoped you and telectrix could help me by sharing some of your knowledge and experience without me having to pay a consultation fee.

Well you're wrong, send us all your money then we'll help you

 

[telectrix]

So me get this straight, you take the inspector to this installation, he then asks you to IR test this particular circuit, you then go upstairs to the main bedroom(assuming these lights are in the lounge/dinning room) move the all furniture, lift the carpet, lift the floorboards, isolate the transformers (all of them) carry out the test with him in attendance, he gives you the nod you go back upstairs and put everything back. I dont think so do you?

transformers are accessible through the ceiling holes for the downlights. no need to strip out the room above.

- - - Updated - - -

So me get this straight, you take the inspector to this installation, he then asks you to IR test this particular circuit, you then go upstairs to the main bedroom(assuming these lights are in the lounge/dinning room) move the all furniture, lift the carpet, lift the floorboards, isolate the transformers (all of them) carry out the test with him in attendance, he gives you the nod you go back upstairs and put everything back. I dont think so do you?

transformers are accessible through the ceiling holes for the downlights. no need to strip out the room above.

 

[telectrix]

i asked my question straight down the line because i didn't know the answer and for no other reason. i'm still learning. i had hoped you and telectrix could help me by sharing some of your knowledge and experience without me having to pay a consultation fee.

i thought we had given you the best solution/s. either dis ' all the trannies and teat all cables, or do the limited test with them connected.