UK Is a standard Pendant a Class 2 fitting?

[timhoward]

I think this thread explains their use and my primary use for using them as they are class 2 and require no CPC, saves a very expensive/difficult partial rewire.

Not sure I agree - the rewire is long overdue anyway - and the safety feature is surely more about basic protection if there’s no bulb in it. Nothing to stop the households or DIY hero changing it to a pretty metal fitting from the charity shop.
Best Practise Guide 4 has helpful suggestions about how to handle no cpc on lighting circuit during EICRs.
In any case I’m not sure why the class II debate is relevant as the regs say class II can only be used as a means of protection in a supervised installation which a dwelling certainly isn’t.
I haven’t read whole thread - sorry if I’m repeating anything or misunderstanding the point!

 

[bilabonic]

Not sure I agree - the rewire is long overdue anyway - and the safety feature is surely more about basic protection if there’s no bulb in it. Nothing to stop the households or DIY hero changing it to a pretty metal fitting from the charity shop.
Best Practise Guide 4 has helpful suggestions about how to handle no cpc on lighting circuit during EICRs.
In any case I’m not sure why the class II debate is relevant as the regs say class II can only be used as a means of protection in a supervised installation which a dwelling certainly isn’t.
I haven’t read whole thread - sorry if I’m repeating anything or misunderstanding the point!

They suit my needs atm and both a JIB and an NICEIC electricians are willing to issue me an EICR with class 2 pendants (C3 with CU labelled warning notice to say not to install metal fittings on lighting).

This is a solution for me until the property is totally gutted/rewired some time later this year.

 

[timhoward]

both a JIB and an NICEIC electricians are willing to issue me an EICR with class 2 pendants (C3 with CU labelled warning notice to say not to install metal fittings on lighting).

Sure - that is what BPG 4 advises (via BPG 1 see below) too. I'd do that too in some circumstances - I had one recently where a Wylex rewireable board was cracked beyond hope exposing live parts. I wasn't going to refuse to change the CU because of the lack of CPC on lighting circuit, or leave the customer with no lights! (The lighting is getting rewired soon)

My point was more about the words "avoiding rewire" as it sounded as if you meant this was a long term solution - you've now clarified you meant "for the time being".

For the record, this is what BPG1 says, and it's a pragmatic compromise that contravenes the regs as I noted above (Class II protection in dwelling)

 

[bilabonic]

I just opened a ‘cheapy’ unbranded pendant and it had double insulated sign on the base.
Tested continuity an it’s constant whether pins are depressed are not.
So the base is class 2 and the holder is class 1.

I’ll test the BG class 2 when I have chance to see if pins indeed do disconnect without lamp.

 

[nicebutdim]

I can see how a rose could be considered as double insulated, but given the very definition of 'double insulated' I'd consider it quite a liberty to attach the symbol to any rose being sold as part of a pendant set or indeed to any standard bayonet fitting.

 

[littlespark]

I would say the ceiling rose, which can be opened without use of a tool, cannot be double insulated…. Unless the terminals are enclosed inside another plastic box… which they’re not.

Maybe once they’ve been up for a decade, and the cover is stuck with paint, then it can’t be opened.

 

[westward10]

It is all very well a Guide citing you can use Class II but as stated above by @timhoward and by myself many times before Class II cannot be used as a means of protection in a dwelling. Most electricians do not realise this and whilst they think they are making it safer using Class II where there is an absence of a cpc this should be listed as a departure from BS7671.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

It is all very well a Guide citing you can use Class II but as stated above by @timhoward and by myself many times before Class II cannot be used as a means of protection in a dwelling. Most electricians do not realise this and whilst they think they are making it safer using Class II where there is an absence of a cpc this should be listed as a departure from BS7671.

For new work, additions, alterations and so on, absolutely agree.

For maintenance on old existing installations, it's necessary to avoid potential danger.

 

[westward10]

For new work, additions, alterations and so on, absolutely agree.

For maintenance on old existing installations, it's necessary to avoid potential danger.

For new work, additions, alterations etc... you wouldn't consider it as there is no cpc to utilise for ADS. For maintenance I would only ever replace something if it was so dangerous that leaving it couldn't be justified.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

For new work, additions, alterations etc... you wouldn't consider it as there is no cpc to utilise for ADS.

As above, completely agree

For maintenance I would only ever replace something if it was so dangerous that leaving it couldn't be justified.

This would presumably include where class I fittings had been fitted on a lighting circuit with no CPC?