Kitchen Diner Downlights - too many!?

[richo106]

I am planning my kitchen diner lighting, i am thinking about installed megaman 5w dimmable led GU10s, not sure on either 2800k or 4000k. whats people past experience with the lighting colour?

My main concern is the number of lights though, the kitchen area will be lit by downlight and the dining area lit by a pendant over the table. I have no kitchen cabinets on the walls just full height cupboards in the alcove.
As you can see by plan my first draft is to install 15 downlight at 95cm apart, is this too many? i will be installing a dimmer also so i can control the light level.

What are peoples thoughts? All help appreciated

Thanks

 

[Leesparkykent]

Looks like alot of down lights. You could get away with 8 or 12 in that area.

 

[Vitesse]

Looks like alot of down lights. You could get away with 8 or 12 in that area.

Agree with Lee I think that is too many in that area. I would look at maybe 9 and up the wattage and get the 6W Megaman dimmerable, 4000k is good for a kitchen. 2500k warm white is what you would normally see in a lounge, sitting room or bedroom. 6000k is almost like an operating theatre. Fastlec is the best price I have found and good quick delivery.

 

[d.l.rob]

Might be worth temp wiring up one to a plug and holding it up to the ceiling and if you have someone with you, you can switch places and give each other your opinions

 

[amlu]

and there may be wooden joists in the ceiling, getting lights exact 95cm apart may not be possible.

 

[Octopus]

What ever you finally decide you DO NOT want all those lights on 1 switch, dimmer or not.

 

[walsall]

I would get a couple of 4000k lights and try them first before buying a load of them. It depends on the colour of the room, kitchen units and worktop. 4000K can look horribly clinical in a domestic setting.

If you put warm white in the dining section it will look very yellow when both are on together.

I’ve just done a large Kitchen/Diner and I’ve used 3000K, just a bit whiter than 2700/2800 and it works well but flows well when walking through the house.

Also I’d think about using some other fittings with wide angle beams that are better/more reliable than GU10. You can use less of them.

60degree beam – 7 year warranty

http://www.collingwoodlighting.com/en/products/downlights-halers-range/item/h2-pro-550-uk


70degree beam 5 year warranty
http://www.ecostar.photonstarlighting.co.uk/products/

Both through Edmunsons or other wholsalers.
A bit more expensive lamp for lamp, but with the beamangles being larger, and the Ecostar doesn’t even look like a LED. 3000K or 4000K available.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Walsall about bang on!

I would go for 4 in kitchen half, 4 in dining room half, get a decent 5watt 4000k(natural white) lamp not cool white!

TLC do one called SMD gu10, extremely bright, very good/reliable and reasonably priced too

Switched half and half

if your having under cabinet lighting too this will be plenty

15 is by far too much, with decent led lamps it will be sunglasses time!, not to mention alot more unrequired time and cost, and it will look horrible!

less is more, trust me i fit hundreds of these in a year

 

[stevethesparks]

Far too close to the edge of the worktops imo, most of that light will be lighting the tops of the cupboards and throwing deep shadows under them.

 

[richo106]

Thanks for all speedy replies, I think I will be rethinking my layout then. I've read on the internet about having them about a metre apart is a general rule but guessing that doesn't apply anymore.

I havnt got any wall units so there will be no issue with creating shadows on the worktops and the joists aren't in the way with my current plan

 

[walsall]

Re my post above something interesting from Ecostar on the very subject albeit with their fixtures....

http://www.ecostar.photonstarlighting.co.uk/Main_Upload/AE+Kitchen+4.5x4.5+.pdf

 

[walsall]

Thanks for all speedy replies, I think I will be rethinking my layout then. I've read on the internet about having them about a metre apart is a general rule but guessing that doesn't apply anymore.

I havnt got any wall units so there will be no issue with creating shadows on the worktops and the joists aren't in the way with my current plan

The 'metre apart rule' is a lazy way out. It all depends on beam angle and lumens produced by the fitting. If you are lighting a football stadium you have to get very even coverage for TV. In a kitchen, or any other domestic space you need to think about what needs lighting, why, and how bright. You don't want to be sitting at your dining table with soft lighting, only to have to blind everyone with blue lighting when you go in and get the dessert!

I get so depressed when you look round a new build house and their solution to lounge lighting is to put 8 GU10s on a single dimmer......... In fact often that's their solution to every downstairs room!

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for all speedy replies, I think I will be rethinking my layout then. I've read on the internet about having them about a metre apart is a general rule but guessing that doesn't apply anymore.

I havnt got any wall units so there will be no issue with creating shadows on the worktops and the joists aren't in the way with my current plan

how do you know the joists. Pipes. Cables aren't in the way?

 

[richo106]

I have my upstairs floor up as in the middle of renovation.

I think 3 rows in the kitchen will look right as it balances it out, so at the minute its either 3 x 5 (original plan) or 3 x 4 or 3 x 3?

 

[Phil Thompson]

I'd go with what welchyboy suggested, though I got the idea that you will have no wall cabinets on the walls anywhere, and looking in all you see is wall at eye level, and the fridge ladder area will be a flushed to the ceiling as looking in from dining area, so if that was the case I'd suggest a 3x3 array of 9 switched on a 4square and 5 in an L around it switching layout. So the 4 above cooker and washing machine could be off, and the breakfast bar?, sink fridge, larder and doorway can all be lit on the other.

But im not 100% if that's what you're saying, as you'll not be looking to take off 300mm off the wall to allow for those eye level wall cabinets if it is. Hope that makes sense.

 

[muzza1]

Don't forget a nice deep box for your dimmers. Two rows of three for me (approx 8 watt led ww dimmable)
I'd feed the switch then 3x sw lives to your downlights, island light and under unit light, aggree with "less is more"

 

[Adam W]

The thing about downlighters is they project a spot of light, the diameter of which depends on the beam angle of the bulb and the distance from it - with a narrow beam angle and low ceiling you'll end up with nothing more than bright spots on the floor (or indeed worktop), dark walls and an overall dark room; fine if that's the effect you're going for, but not ideal when you want task lighting in somewhere like a kitchen.
Another thing to consider is shadow - a defined beam of light creates a defined shadow; great for making silhouettes, not so great when you're trying to make spaghetti bolognaise. Remember also where your own shadow is going to be cast - if the light source is behind you the shadow of your head will darken whatever you're trying to work on.

If you're not having cupboards on the walls, maybe consider a shelf with under-shelf lighting such as LED strip, or do away with the downlighters in the middle and get the widest beam angle you can to light the worktops.

IMO the lighting in the middle of a kitchen is pretty irrelevant - it's only really there so you can see to clean the floor. You could have star lights in the baseboards, a decorative pendant in the centre, or just more downlighters; as others have said I'd probably have these on the separate circuit so you can either light just the worktops, just the floor so you can see where you're going, or the whole room.