Moving a socket - RCD protection

[atm84]

I don't normally work on refurbishment so excuse my ignorance.

If you were moving a socket, and the circuit isn't currently protected by RCD, do you need to install one.

The circuit is currently fed from an old DB protected by cartridge fuses. The circuit is wired in pvc/pvc single core conductors and runs in steel trunking and surface mounted steel conduit, which drops to serve a surface mounted metal clad socket in an office.

 

[R G]

Install an RCD socket either single or twin..

They are available in metal clad form c/w back box

 

[ImpededLoop]

Given the containment method, you could install an RCD twin socket outlet instead of adding RCD protection to the circuit.

I'm sure some will argue that as you're altering the circuit, you should RCD protect the whole thing.

 

[davesparks]

Carry out a risk assessment and it may not need RCD protection

 

[R G]

The circuit shouldn't need protection with the installation method here

 

[atm84]

Given the containment method, you could install an RCD twin socket outlet instead of adding RCD protection to the circuit.

I'm sure some will argue that as you're altering the circuit, you should RCD protect the whole thing.

I agree that the containment method justifies not protecting the circuit by rcd.

It's something that has never been clear in my mind. The regs. aren't retrospective and if you aren't installing a new circuit, or adding any sockets does that circuit therefore NEED to comply with current regs.

 

[Andy78]

I agree that the containment method justifies not protecting the circuit by rcd.

It's something that has never been clear in my mind. The regs. aren't retrospective and if you aren't installing a new circuit, or adding any sockets does that circuit therefore NEED to comply with current regs.

The work you do needs to comply with the current edition of BS7671. If the work is an alteration to a circuit then strictly the alteration is the only bit that needs to comply. There is of course a need to verify that the installation is suitable and safe for the alterations to take place. This may involve cable calculations and inspection and testing of the current arrangements including of course the existing earthing and bonding.

To take the example here, your alteration to the circuit does not need RCD protection to the altered cable, but of course the socket requires additional protection via 30mA RCD unless it is exempted with a risk assessment or suitably labelled for a singular item of equipment. This could be achieved in this case with a RCD socket front. It could also be achieved with a RCD protecting the whole circuit, or a RCD FCU.

Beyond bare minimum compliance it is the choice of the designer and/or installer to decide which method of compliance best suits the work to be undertaken, bearing in mind that bare minimum compliance with the regs is not always in line with the best method to achieve an outcome.

 

[atm84]

Cheers Andy I totally agree. I'm just playing devils advocate.

 

[Andy78]

Cheers Andy I totally agree. I'm just playing devils advocate.

It didn't sound like that

I agree that the containment method justifies not protecting the circuit by rcd.

It's something that has never been clear in my mind. The regs. aren't retrospective and if you aren't installing a new circuit, or adding any sockets does that circuit therefore NEED to comply with current regs.

 

[Midwest]

Out of interest, has anyone carried out a risk assessment to allow the installation of a socket outlet without RCD protection, in a non domestic situation of course?

 

[atm84]

Midwest, a risk assessment falls under the current edition of BS 7671. I was asking if by moving a socket did it have to comply with current regs as the regulations aren't retrospective.

 

[Octopus]

I'm doing an install of a 2 way socket in 2 weeks time, directly below the CU, for the dedicated use of a tumble dryer and a washing machine - and I'm not going to RCD them as they won't be accessible!

Just saying.

 

[Andy78]

I'm doing an install of a 2 way socket in 2 weeks time, directly below the CU, for the dedicated use of a tumble dryer and a washing machine - and I'm not going to RCD them as they won't be accessible!

Just saying.

Durably labelled for use with a specific item of equipment would be in full compliance with the regs.

 

[atm84]

Whats a 2 way socket?

 

[Andy78]

Whats a 2 way socket?

A socket that can be RCD protected or non-RCD protected at the flick of a switch. Perfect for your job by the sounds of it.

 

[Octopus]

Whats a 2 way socket?

A 2 gang one. I'm brain dead from PAT testing 97 items today!

 

[Risteard]

Out of interest, has anyone carried out a risk assessment to allow the installation of a socket outlet without RCD protection, in a non domestic situation of course?

Surely that is for the client to do.

Why would you unnecessarily adopt that risk?

 

[snowhead]

A 2 gang one. I'm brain dead from PAT testing 97 items today!

So that was in the first hour, what did you do for the rest of the day?

 

[Octopus]

So that was in the first hour, what did you do for the rest of the day?

I should have added, that only took me 30 minutes!

It actually took me 4.5 hours..... so about 3 minutes per item!

 

[GMES]

Atm you have 2 threads running with the same question, they are both being closed until you pm me or another member of staffand decide which you want to keep going.
Thread closed.