New light fitting no earth

[AA410]

Hi Good People advice please. Fitted a new light fitting for a customer that requires an earth removed old ceiling rose conected up new fitting when tested the fitting had no earth informed the customer of the problem that the light fitting requires an earth he told me that not to worry about it and not to take it down how do i cover myself on this this will the small works certifiacate cover me on this Hope you can help many thanks

 

[Spudnik]

Did you connect the circuit cpc?

If so, you may find the fitting is double insulated which would require no earth connection, although there will still usually be a terminal for you to connect them to.

 

[steamboatwilly]

Hi AA,

Obvious question but the CPC in the existing ceiling rose did show continuity back to the CU? Point I'm making is that the CPCs may have continuity but your earth test connection to the light may not? Depends on where you tested (ie, earth terminal or casing)?

If your new light is Class 1 then it will need a CPC connection (manufacturers instructions will say that).

Personally, I don't think making a note on the certificate will cover you. Either track down the earth fault or tell them it could be lethal under fault conditions.

 

[AA410]

thanks for the replys There is an earth on this cable but the rest of the circuit is old twin pvc do you think taking an earth from a socket outlet is a good idea to get back to the board will be a nightmear a very large house with a lot of lamanat floors.

 

[wallyanker]

I don't think you are allowed to "borrow" an earth from a socket, if you have a live-earth fault at the light, you have then spread the fault to the socket circuit aswell. Prepared to be corrected if i'm wrong though.

 

[steamboatwilly]

thanks for the replys There is an earth on this cable but the rest of the circuit is old twin pvc do you think taking an earth from a socket outlet is a good idea to get back to the board will be a nightmear a very large house with a lot of lamanat floors.

Nah, can't do that. Sounds logical but can't. You'd need to run a suitably sized single CPC from the light (or related junction box) back to the MET and, ideally, that CPC should run adjacent to the circuit feeding that rose.

This dosesn't sound like a runner to me if the guy is saying to leave it as is. You'll be better off - I think - stating that only Class II (double insulated) light fittings are to be used. Put a sticker on the CU.

 

[bugsy]

I don't suppose by any chance it's an L.V. fitting

 

[solo2771]

have you checked all the other lighting circuits for good earth?
and could there be a jb with an earth disconected?

 

[AA410]

This job started as a while your hear lol all the lighting circuits are in twin red and black were the light is in twin and earth so its been added on i should have checked it before i put the fitting up never mind can i take an earth from any other circuit and put a lable atached to the earth cable at each end saying were it is feed from and on the fuse board and on the small works sheet i have tryed to tell the customer he thinks it a joke dont you just love people

 

[wallyanker]

This job started as a while your hear lol all the lighting circuits are in twin red and black were the light is in twin and earth so its been added on i should have checked it before i put the fitting up never mind can i take an earth from any other circuit and put a lable atached to the earth cable at each end saying were it is feed from and on the fuse board and on the small works sheet i have tryed to tell the customer he thinks it a joke dont you just love people

you can't take an earth from another circuit but you can run a separate earth from the consumer unit to this light fitting.

 

[steamboatwilly]

you can't take an earth from another circuit but you can run a separate earth from the consumer unit to this light fitting.

Yup, absolutely.....download the Best Practice Guide on Replacing a CU without earth conductors in lighting circuits and it'll tell you all you need to know:

http://www.esc.org.uk/business-and-community/electrical-industry/best-practice-guides.html

...and from that Guide, here are your options AA;

If the customer will not agree to the
installation of cpcs:
• Carry out a risk assessment including
inspection and testing
• Replace metal fittings and accessories, or
separately earth metal fittings
• Fit a warning notice as necessary
• Issue an electrical installation certificate,
detailing non-compliances if any
• Advise the customer in writing of any risks
remaining on completion of the work

 

[AA410]

Thats great i think i will issue him a small works and a rejistard letter explaying the need for the earth on this light fitting CAN I SAY A BIG THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE