Part 'P' notification question?

[Bob Geldoff1234]

If notification under Part 'P' is a legal requirement for a consumer unit change, then if a person changed the unit,issued a non scheme EIC and didn't notify Building control then would the installation be deemed illegal?

I thought Part 'P' was to make sure that the installation was done to a high standard and by someone who is qualified to do the job.
Legally,where does someone stand who's had the job done but no Part 'P' when trying to then sell their house?

 

[buzzlightyear]

but no Part 'P' when trying to then sell their house?

up the river in a boat with out the paddles ,then the owner of the house will need to speak to the LBC for guidance .

 

[SJD]

I get asked on a regular basis by people selling a house, this is a quite common occurrence. Sometimes an EICR is done, sometimes the buyer is told there is no paperwork and they decide to proceed or not. Can't see why a seller would want to flag it up with LABC.

The buyer can maybe buy an insurance policy via their solicitor, they seem to sell them to cover all sorts of irregularities.

 

[buzzlightyear]

did a EICR for some customer the other day ,brought the house from the last person that had it and selling it ,part rewired it, new consumer ,I tested it unsatisfactory. can you imagine when the solicitor reads it ,what the F**K .

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

But if it's a legal requirement to have Part 'P' then why are people getting away with not doing it? Could the install be deemed to not comply in the eyes of the law? And what,legally, does a homeowner need to do? Can the LABC come out 2-3 years later to certify the job?

 

[buzzlightyear]

but no Part 'P' when trying to then sell their house

bob you have not done a job and not reg it have you ,now come clean now ,before the boys in blue kick your door down .

 

[SJD]

Can the LABC come out 2-3 years later to certify the job?

The LABC's I know don't want to come out to certify anything, that is why they set their prices as high as they can get away with if asked to justify them, in the hope nobody will actually ask them to.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

I tested it unsatisfactory. can you imagine when the solicitor reads it ,what the F**K .

What was 'unsatisfactory'?

 

[buzzlightyear]

What was 'unsatisfactory

me ,LOL.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

bob you have not done a job and not reg it have you ,now come clean now ,before the boys in blue kick your door down .

Not me guv.Just had a enquiry from a customer asking me these questions and thought i'd ask the good folk on here for their opinions.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Not me guv.Just had a enquiry from a customer asking me these questions

DID THEY SIT YOU DOWN IN A CHAIR AND ASK YOU .

 

[Wilko]

When I bought my house it had a new gas boiler fitted the year previously with no paperwork or notification. So it clearly still happens even in Gas Safe land.

 

[Andy78]

The answer is that nobody cares, nobody will ever be prosecuted for not notifying work, and there are established get arounds already in place, for a cost, to smooth over any issues during a house sale.

 

[Wilko]

But if it's a legal requirement to have Part 'P' then why are people getting away with not doing it? Could the install be deemed to not comply in the eyes of the law? And what,legally, does a homeowner need to do? Can the LABC come out 2-3 years later to certify the job?

Hi - if it’s a change that requires notification and that’s not happened then it’s unapproved building works. If there was an electrical fire I reckon the building insurance company might make something of it. Similar to modified cars, if that makes any sense.
Homeowner could ask for advice from their Local Council Buildings Officer about how to regularise the work. As others have said an EICR may be acceptable to them.

 

[Rpa07]

The insurance through a solicitor to cover no electrical certificates costs less money than an EICR (properly done of course)!

 

[Wilko]

The insurance through a solicitor to cover no electrical certificates costs less money than an EICR (properly done of course)!

Yes, but the devil in the detail here is this policy won’t get the house rebuilt after an electrical fire. The policy would pay for remedial work should that be required by Buildings. Basically the insurance folks are betting that the homeowner is never asked to get the work regularised so it remains unapproved building works forever. That’s why it’s so cheap ...

And it encourages the homeowner to feel ok about this. But in my view, the fact that work is not registered must be an indicator that it may not have been done properly by a competent person, so it may not be safe.

 

[Rpa07]

Houses used to be ‘sold as seen’ - whether the hoops and hurdles that need to be fulfilled are good or bad is subjective BUT you used to be able to get a house for £30k whereas now that same house is £300k hence it needs to be up to spec OR sold as seen and priced to sell.

Yes, but the devil in the detail here is this policy won’t get the house rebuilt after an electrical fire. The policy would pay for remedial work should that be required by Buildings. Basically the insurance folks are betting that the homeowner is never asked to get the work regularised so it remains unapproved building works forever. That’s why it’s so cheap ...

And it encourages the homeowner to feel ok about this. But in my view, the fact that work is not registered must be an indicator that it may not have been done properly by a competent person, so it may not be safe.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - I think it’s still “sold as seen” with the original owner providing no warranties. It is common that prior to completion the buyer will ask for various things to be addressed. The seller can fix them in some way, knock £10 off or refuse to do anything. It’s always the buyer’s choice whether or not to proceed.

 

[Zerax]

Caveat Emptor is what it's all about... it's entirely up to the buyer to satisfy themselves that the property being purchased is 'up to spec' and as such, standard conveyance documentation states that no warranty is given.

However, as said before, if the purchaser insists upon it... it's very normal for a vendor to stump up the nominal fee for insurance (it really is peanuts) in case anything nasty comes back on the purchaser. Conveyancers are very keen to arrange this for some unknown reason.

 

[Dustydazzler]

up the river in a boat with out the paddles ,then the owner of the house will need to speak to the LBC for guidance .

Very easily resolved

The buyers solicitor will request that they purchase a indemnity policy to cover the works

This applies to boilers without a gas safe , a window without a Fensa and any building works without a completion certificate or without planning permission

There is absolutely nothing stopping a buyer proceeding a purchase

My uncle just purchased a bungalow that had a very recent rear kitchen extension that had absolutely no paperwork.
He paid for a survey to check the work and an indemnity to cover lack of paperwork.
The purchase went through like Normal

 

[Dustydazzler]

When I bought my house it had a new gas boiler fitted the year previously with no paperwork or notification. So it clearly still happens even in Gas Safe land.

The house we just purchased back in 2016 had a brand spanking new Worcester Bosch boiler , you guessed it no base safe paperwork.
We Paid a £60 indemnity as our solicitor ‘recommends’ it.
Get boiler serviced and checked on moving in.
No problem

 

[Dustydazzler]

The insurance through a solicitor to cover no electrical certificates costs less money than an EICR (properly done of course)!

Typical indemnity for missing gassafe , part pee or Fensa is around £60-80 in my experience

 

[Zerax]

I think that rather than getting stressed about no paperwork... we should get stressed about the appallingly low standard of modern built housing ! I know of so much of it that very clearly and obviously does not comply with building regulations yet it's all been signed off and all documentation is correct !!

 

[Midwest]

Before purchasing indemnity insurance for unauthorised building works, you should actually find out what it covers you for & what it doesn't.

Prosecution for contravention of building regs is time limited, as is an enforcement notice.

I sold my house last year. There's a legal document you have to sign, asking various questions; extensions or any other building work, ownership of borders (fencing etc), requirements of access for neighbours, installation of gas boilers, etc etc, AND if any electrical installations have taken place since 2005.

Copies of electrical & compliances certificates are asked to be attached to the signed document.

So I guess, if you haven't the appropriate documentation, is when the negotiations start. Or the prospective buyer may decide not to proceed.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Here is another question

My parents have lived in the same house for 45 years

Around 30 years ago they had a massive extension built but have lost any of the plans , hand written and signed paperwork / certs etc

They literally have no paperwork for what is a huge extension

 

[Midwest]

Here is another question

My parents have lived in the same house for 45 years

Around 30 years ago they had a massive extension built but have lost any of the plans , hand written and signed paperwork / certs etc

They literally have no paperwork for what is a huge extension

I suspect the buyers solicitor would recommend a survey. LBC could not take any action. Indemnity insurance would probably be worthless in this case.

 

[Zerax]

...I sold my house last year. There's a legal document you have to sign, asking various questions; extensions or any other building work, ownership of borders (fencing etc), requirements of access for neighbours, installation of gas boilers, etc etc, AND if any electrical installations have taken place since 2005...

In reality... most people will just say "No" to all those questions... especially if they don't have the right documentation.

It all forms part of the modern charade system of box ticking...

I recall many years ago... working in a company where the MDs father would come in now and again to saw up and remove surplus pallets. I noticed one day that he was very 'cack handed' with the circular saw he was using... so fearing for his safety (I'm caring like that...) I went over and politely suggested a safer way to do it... I was quickly rebuffed !! He told me that he had a certificate in 'power tool safety'... so therefore knew far more than me about it... I walked away, happy in the knowledge that if he did have a nasty accident, at least he had the correct certificate.

 

[snowhead]

Here is another question

My parents have lived in the same house for 45 years

Around 30 years ago they had a massive extension built but have lost any of the plans , hand written and signed paperwork / certs etc

They literally have no paperwork for what is a huge extension

It won't be a problem if it was all done though Building control, it will be registered and BC will issue a copy of the completion certificate.

In fact it may be worth looking into it now.

 

[Midwest]

In reality... most people will just say "No" to all those questions... especially if they don't have the right documentation.

Thats true, but bearing in mind it is a legal document, and you are entering into a legal contract with someone; if things go wrong, you could end up in some form of litigation.

Doubtful for electrical work install correctly. Perhaps not so for poorly or incorrectly installed work, that results in damage or injury.

It is ultimately the home owner who is responsible to ensure building regulations have been complied with.

 

[Midwest]

It won't be a problem if it was all done though Building control, it will be registered and BC will issue a copy of the completion certificate.

In fact it may be worth looking into it now.

There's a requirement for LBC to keep records, but again time limited. Not a problem these days, but I suspect there was no electronic record keeping 30 years ago, unless they've since electronically archived them.

 

[Dustydazzler]

There's a requirement for LBC to keep records, but again time limited. Not a problem these days, but I suspect there was no electronic record keeping 30 years ago, unless they've since electronically archived them.

Will be interesting to see if the extension is still logged with the LBC and how much paperwork still exists

It was built around the early/ mid 80s

 

[Dustydazzler]

There's a requirement for LBC to keep records, but again time limited. Not a problem these days, but I suspect there was no electronic record keeping 30 years ago, unless they've since electronically archived them.

Will be interesting to see if the extension is still logged with the LBC and how much paperwork still exists

It was built around the early/ mid 80s

 

[Charlie_]

Has any homeowners, builders, sparkies, anybody, actually had any sort of reprimand for violating part p of the building regs?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Has any homeowners, builders, sparkies, anybody, actually had any sort of reprimand for violating part p of the building regs?

Not that I’m aware off

 

[telectrix]

Has any homeowners, builders, sparkies, anybody, actually had any sort of reprimand for violating part p of the building regs?

only if the work is shoddy, dangerous, or causes injury. even then any prosecution does not include non-compliance with part pee.

 

[Charlie_]

So the statistics can be spun 2 ways;

1: It’s been a great success and all work is spot and being carried out by competent sparks.

2: No means of reporting violations and no enforcement

 

[FatAlan]

One thing I’d be wary of is paying big bucks for full surveys prior to buying. My current place is an old stone cottage that we’ve just refurbished. Paid £700 for survey but in reality it was full of caveats and did tell me anything really that I didn’t already know. It didn’t however pick up up on woodworm damage floor and roof joists which basically resulted in stripping the house down to just walls and putting a new roof on (pretty basic stuff). So basically I’d paid big bucks for a walk round survey in a glossy brochure full of caveats on things that hadn’t been done. Fortunately the house was priced fairly on its condition and we would have bought anyway, it just forced us to alter plans on extensions etc.

 

[Wilko]

1: It’s been a great success and all work is spot on and being carried out by competent sparks.

Ha ha, look what just flew by

 

[Midwest]

Will be interesting to see if the extension is still logged with the LBC and how much paperwork still exists

It was built around the early/ mid 80s

I can do a search on my local council web site, under building control, to see basic info on a property's build regs etc history. Try yours.