PIR testing 10% definition ?

[oldtimer]

Hi all when doing a PIR say on a 8 way Wylex CB DB how many of the circuits do you test and what is your interpitation of 10% testing.

Now I will declare I alway test all the circuits at the DB Insulation. R1+R2 and with sockets I test the Zs at each outlet and the Zs at the furthest away light on a light circuit plus the Zs on Immersion and cooker etc the reason why I ask is I was sent a copy a circuit DB test schedule and it left me a bit puzzled I will expand later but first I need to bounce this off a few of you to make sure my feet are firmly on the ground

 

[Sintra]

This really depends on what is noted on the limitations. For example we have a few clients that we do a rolling 20% yearly PIR for with 10% of accessories on those circuits visually inspected. The client stipulates this as a sort of rolling maintenance contract meaning that he gets 100% of the installation tested every 5 years and 10% of accessories inspected.

 

[topquark]

For domestic all circuits. I believe that any sampling entertained should be per circuit. I don't personally believe in sampling for domestic though (it's rarely necessary and far too easy to miss something). For some commercial and industrial I'd agree its rarely unavoidable.

 

[Des 56]

My normal long winded reply got lost in cyberspace earlier on,was there a problem with the forum?
I will now wait for part 2

 

[IQ Electrical]

Hi all when doing a PIR say on a 8 way Wylex CB DB how many of the circuits do you test and what is your interpitation of 10% testing.

Now I will declare I alway test all the circuits at the DB Insulation. R1+R2 and with sockets I test the Zs at each outlet and the Zs at the furthest away light on a light circuit plus the Zs on Immersion and cooker etc the reason why I ask is I was sent a copy a circuit DB test schedule and it left me a bit puzzled I will expand later but first I need to bounce this off a few of you to make sure my feet are firmly on the ground

The sample percentage rate should be applied to DETAILED INSPECTION only, not testing.

The primary reason for the percentage as described in Guidance Note 3 is that with 100% detailed inspection, faults can easily be created while opening up enclosures, removing luminaires from ceilings etc.

As usual, if defects are revealed in the initial sample or results are significantly worse than those recorded on previous reports/certificates, the percentage rate should then be increased.

 

[mickys86]

Also 10% testing requires you to have previous documentation and the owners permission

Thats What we got taught at college the other week so don't shoot me down haha

 

[oldtimer]

This really depends on what is noted on the limitations. For example we have a few clients that we do a rolling 20% yearly PIR for with 10% of accessories on those circuits visually inspected. The client stipulates this as a sort of rolling maintenance contract meaning that he gets 100% of the installation tested every 5 years and 10% of accessories inspected.

Sintra it looks like you have hit this on the head for me because I was asked to quote for a new DB and the tenant of the property an old lady commented that the 2 men turn up every year to test the electrics this was after I had to do an emergency repair as a couple of neutrals were damaged due to every one on the neutral bar being slack. When I contacted the letting agent and said this would require more investigation because i got some low insulation readings I asked if they had any circuit charts or test sheets for the property so they sent me the DB tests section of the the PIR that was completed 3 weeks ago !!!!!! it had only 2 circuits tested one showed 2010 the other was 2011 so yep one circuit per visit per year I can only assume mind the paperwork was shoddy they used the basic documentation from IEE plus on the sheet I got they did not register the test meter used or its serial number or calibration date and lastly the insulation readings were 500Mohms this makes me think that they have put in the test voltage instead of the actual insulation reading.

OK now that I have this off my chest can someone explain to me why this "rolling" testing is done surely it would be better to do and pay for a full PIR

Sinatra can you tell me the cost difference between a full PIR and this 10% or 20% rolling one please

 

[Des 56]

The type of Pir described ie a rolling inspection, should be applicable to large installations where inconvenience or planned maintenance is the driving force

For almost any domestic installation,limitations of this sort makes a mockery of the intentions of having a report

At best it is a poor process and at worst,a convenient way of hoodwinking unimformed customers or potential purchasers of the property into thinking it has meaning

I cant see in my wildest dreams myself compiling a sheet of bogroll as described,then being satisfied that I was fulfilling any legal or even moral standards

 

[oldtimer]

So Des what you are saying is that companies are applying rolling PIR meant for comercial industrial installation to a domestic one I for one agree with you that this makes a mockery of what we have been all shouting about ie "drive by PIRs" generated by "registered" Ltd companies who in my view know damn well they are out of order but then again maybe that the arrangement they have with their customer.
Anyway thanks for this

 

[just add water sparks]

It is interesting how everyone interprets the 10% test sometimes i think you can portion some of the blame as usual to undefined regulations.It bugs me there are so many grey area's.I can remember on an M.O.D Job a company tested only 10% of each distribution board of each building on a p.i.r. I would be interested on comments about this.?Can anyone quote me on regs book page no. about this as i cannot find this in the brb.I cannot see how this is acceptable but if the client is happy about that i wonder what the legal take on this is?

 

[mogga]

I can see what the "Client" is trying to do they are trying to have a visit every year to 1 spred the cost 2 get off doing a vissual inspection every year incase the tenant is a DIY freek Whether its right or wrong im not sure Personaly Id prefer domestic rented PIRs done every 5 yrs and visualy inspected every year as some tenants feel the NEED to have a bash at some DIY where as others dont feel the need to contact landlord and annow him with that broken socket

 

[oldtimer]

I can see what the "Client" is trying to do they are trying to have a visit every year to 1 spred the cost 2 get off doing a vissual inspection every year incase the tenant is a DIY freek Whether its right or wrong im not sure Personaly Id prefer domestic rented PIRs done every 5 yrs and visualy inspected every year as some tenants feel the NEED to have a bash at some DIY where as others dont feel the need to contact landlord and annow him with that broken socket

Mogga as you say get a full PIR done every 3 or 5 years but this rolling type PIR was never meant for domestics as for spreading the cost well me thinks say £120 every 5 years is better than the 30 minute if it is that every year at probably £50-£80 a pop