Pool Breaker Tripping

[cannonball35]

Hello,
I been having an issue with my breaker to my pool pump tripping. It's an odd scenario that two electricians are unable to provide a resolution. My pool pump is on one breaker and I can run the pump for 24/7 with no issues. My heat pump is on another breaker and when I put my heat pump on the pool pump breaker trips. I had the pool pump breaker replaced all the connections checked and the issue is still happening. Seems like everyone doesn't seem to find the relation that only when the pool heat pump is on and running the pool pump will trip after an hour an half of running. Any advice that can help troubleshoot?

The pool pump is on the 20amp pole breaker and the heat pump is on the 60amp pole breaker. The 20amp pool breaker does get warm when the heat pump is on.

 

[westward10]

Are you 100% certain that 20A breaker only does the pool pump, does the heater still function with the 20A breaker off.

 

[cannonball35]

Thank-you for the reply.

The 20A breaker also has two other connections. A saltwater generator and a polaris pump for the vacuum. Unfortunately the heater will only work if the pool pump is on. I tried turning off everything and only have the pool pump and pool heater running at the same time, but still the breaker for the pool pump trips. Everyone tells me that there is no relation to the two since they are on the a different breaker. I'm having a hard time understanding why the 20A breaker only trips when the heat pump is on.

 

[westward10]

Has anyone put a clamp meter on the 20A breaker to see if the heater is drawing load from it. Does the heater have a control circuit which is being affected by the 20A breaker being off and is this breaker a GFCI.

 

[cannonball35]

The electrician that replaced the 20A breaker yesterday checked and said the leg had 13.7 when everything was running, and was the load was balance.

The only other thing that I notice is the 20A breaker gets warm. Can the heat pump be giving off heat which is causing the breaker to trip?

 

[westward10]

Does it trip immediately when the heater is switched on or does it take a while. Everything points to the 20A breaker doing the heater either directly or indirectly through a control circuit. Is the breaker getting warm when the heater is off.

 

[cannonball35]

The 20A breaker trips roughly about an hour an half after the heat pump has been turned on and running

 

[westward10]

Has it ever worked correctly or is this recent.

 

[cannonball35]

That's a good question: The pool was built in July 2019. I'm in the northeast and the pool is only open for half the year. No issues at the end of the first season running the heater and pool pump. The second season when the pool was opened in 2020 that's when the issue started. Been working to try and resolve since July 2020

 

[westward10]

Does the breaker get warm with only the pool pump running and the heater off.

 

[cannonball35]

I just went out. Breaker is warm right now. I don't have the heat pump on. I tried to measure the temperature with just a normal scan thermometer that I use for the kids, but it says HI. Can't get an actual reading.

 

[westward10]

Can you access the pool pump to see its rating plate.

 

[cannonball35]

That's the pool pump. I'm unable to get a good picture of the vacuum pump. My understanding from the electrician is the vacuum draws 6.4 amps

 

[Lucien Nunes]

It is possible for heat generated in the heater breaker, and in the board busbar and connections, to influence the tripping current of the pump breaker. If all the temperatures are within normal range, then the breaker should not trip below its rated current, but if the busbar lugs are getting excessively hot when the heater is on due to a high-resistance connection, then the pump breaker could become hypersensitive and malfunction.

There is also the possibility of a short-circuit between the pump wiring and the heater, so that a fraction the heater current at least in one hot leg is passing through the pump breaker. That would result in the dangerous situation that both devices would remain live when either breaker is on, but the device whose breaker is off would appear to be dead and non-functional because one leg is still independent and disconnected by the breaker. I think that deserves checking soonest just to rule it out, although if the clamp ammeter test was done on both poles of the breaker and the currents were correct, then that's pretty convincing proof it's not the problem.

 

[Slimmct]

just wondered if it is worth thinking about a possible fault with the defrost cycle on the heat pump if it kicks in after 90 minutes? No idea on the relationship with the pool pump.

 

[cannonball35]

Thank-you everyone for the feedback. I'm awaiting next steps from the pool company. In the meantime I order a thermo gun to test the breaker temperature. It's running now with out the heat pump and it's not warm. Once the heater is turned on it gets hot. Maybe that will be able to provide some additional information to identify the root cause.

 

[westward10]

What you need is a clamp meter to measure the current from the breaker with the different parts running.

 

[cannonball35]

Just ordered one from Amazon. I'll post the results once it comes. thank-you for all the feedback,

 

[cannonball35]

The pool company was just out. They switched the heat pump breaker from 60A gfci to a 50A. They are thinking the gfci is causing the breaker to trip. I have everything running now, hopefully that was the issue.

 

[westward10]

Is it still a gfci. I dont understand why the other breaker was tripping.

 

[cannonball35]

The replacement breaker wasn't a gfci it's just a double pole 50A breaker. I'm not sure the pool company said they started to swap out the gfci breaker for the heat pump as they were seeing them start to trip. I'm confused also as how the other breaker was tripping. The only thing I can see is that the ground wire for the pump goes to the heat pump which then goes back to the main panel. Maybe there is a relation there. It's been running for about 4 hours now.

 

[westward10]

Can't see how the ground wire has influenced the tripping nor can I see how changing the heater breaker stopped the pump breaker tripping. Whether they should have replaced the gfci with a normal breaker @Megawatt is more likely to know as he is based in the States.

 

[Rockingit]

Sounds to me like there's some linkage between the two breakers going on there.

 

[Megawatt]

The 20A breaker trips roughly about an hour an half after the heat pump has been turned on and running

Cannon if your breaker is getting warm, it is pulling more amperage than it is designed for. If it runs for an hour and one half it’s not a fault tripping issue. No Matter what your electrician tells you are pulling too much amperage. Try a 30 amp breaker just to proof a point. Feel the wire to see if it’s getting warm also. You need # 10 wire.

 

[cannonball35]

Update: I ran everything overnight and no issue. About 11:30am the pool pump breaker tripped. At that time the pool vacuum was running with the pool pump on the same 20A breaker. I'm waiting to hear the next steps from the pool company. I would like them to put the pool vacuum on a separate breaker. Hopefully we are getting closer to resolve this. Appreciate the help.