Quality workmanship & zoning question

[Deleted member 112675]

So I'm refurbishing/replacing my kitchen and the existing sockets are largely where I want them so I thought it would be a case of replacing like for like. How wrong was I. This first pic was taken just above the hob.



As a non spark even I can see significant problems: Connector blocks (not even taped) stuffed into the wall, long lengths of cores into tile-clad plasterboard. Socket almost directly above hob (was gas when I moved in). Cooker circuit used not only for cooker but for fan and worktop lights. Cable veering off to the left before entering cooker hood.

And that last one brings me to my main question. Is the attached second pic showing two proposed routes (in green and blue) within zones? Cutting right into the ceiling would be a pain as have just plastered and painted it (silly me) but also joists don't run favourably.

Seems to me that green and blue are ONLY acceptable if the new cooker extractor socket creates a zone itself but the socket would be "hidden" inside cupboard. But if it doesn't create a zone then no routing of cable would be valid? There will be wall cupboards so worst case perhaps I could just clip direct to the wall above them? Would they need trunking?

 

[telectrix]

could you move the new socket/outlet plate to directly above the cooker switch?

 

[Deleted member 112675]

Does that imply its ok to spur from the cooker circuit?

THe problem anyway is that switch is right next to the hob so I think it needs moving to the right?

 

[Dartlec]

Assumption of cabling routes in kitches can be a dangerous game as you've seen. Every electrician will have seen similar to yours, and a lot worse.

Well done for wanting to fix it rather than just leave what's there. It does mean that you are effectively altering the installation though, so the socket circuit should be RCD protected (hopefully already is) and tested for continuity on completion.

Of the two, the green line seems a better bet to me.

You are allowed to run cables up to 150mm down from the ceiling in the wall which would cover the green horizontal run of the cable.

If you were able to put the top socket in a cupboard above the hob switch then that would cover your vertical drop to the socket.

If not, then how high will the cupboards be going?

If the cupboard is going up to less than 150mm from the ceiling then I'd say there is no problem. To drill into something there you would be drilling inside the cupboard and then you would see the socket.

If there is a sizable gap above the cupboard and below the 150mm zone it becomes slightly more complicated and it may not count as a safe zone in my view, though the practical risk may be small.

If you need to keep the socket where you have it on the picture, then for the section outside the zones, surface trunking or surface clipped cabling may be an option. (I assume this will be a cupboard mounted extractor rather than the ones with a chimney?)

Burying it more than 50mm in the wall or using earthed conduit are other options but unlikely to be practical.

Re the Hob switch, there is no direct electrical regulation that specifies it's location (there is a gas one that doesn't allow switchgear directly above a gas hob). However, good practise means you shouldn't have to reach across the hob to switch it off in the event of an issue.

Generally 100mm gap is the widely used interpretation, though it can be a matter of judgement.

And it will look neater if it's the right way up too

 

[Deleted member 112675]

Assumption of cabling routes in kitches can be a dangerous game as you've seen. Every electrician will have seen similar to yours, and a lot worse.

Well done for wanting to fix it rather than just leave what's there. It does mean that you are effectively altering the installation though, so the socket circuit should be RCD protected (hopefully already is) and tested for continuity on completion.

Of the two, the green line seems a better bet to me.

You are allowed to run cables up to 150mm down from the ceiling in the wall which would cover the green horizontal run of the cable.

If you were able to put the top socket in a cupboard above the hob switch then that would cover your vertical drop to the socket.

If not, then how high will the cupboards be going?

If the cupboard is going up to less than 150mm from the ceiling then I'd say there is no problem. To drill into something there you would be drilling inside the cupboard and then you would see the socket.

If there is a sizable gap above the cupboard and below the 150mm zone it becomes slightly more complicated and it may not count as a safe zone in my view, though the practical risk may be small.

If you need to keep the socket where you have it on the picture, then for the section outside the zones, surface trunking or surface clipped cabling may be an option. (I assume this will be a cupboard mounted extractor rather than the ones with a chimney?)

Burying it more than 50mm in the wall or using earthed conduit are other options but unlikely to be practical.

Re the Hob switch, there is no direct electrical regulation that specifies it's location (there is a gas one that doesn't allow switchgear directly above a gas hob). However, good practise means you shouldn't have to reach across the hob to switch it off in the event of an issue.

Generally 100mm gap is the widely used interpretation, though it can be a matter of judgement.

And it will look neater if it's the right way up too

Fantastic and comprehensive reply - thanks so much ! Re RCDs no there isn't currently one (just being honest) but I will, in a month or two, be getting a spark hopefully from this forum to replace the consumer unit and do full inspect & test. I do have my own cheapish (compared to a megger!) MFT so will do some dead testing prior to the CU upgrade

 

[telectrix]

i can do london.... 1st. class return flight with BA. limo transfers both ends. Dorchester for 2 nights, then all it will be is £600 + parts. you want the best, you pay for the best.