Re using old switches

[Robert Turnbull]

I'm about to re-wire a old house and it has a lot of old brass toggle switches. I have spec'd new antique brass switches from wandsworth which adds about 1k to the price but they are quality products and i have used them before so i can recommend them. They can make custom plates as well which is good as some of the switches are non standard config.

The clients asked why we cannot reuse the old stuff.

1. Most likely has no earthing terminal....

2. I wouldn't like to guarantee really old switch gear.

Is there a reg/rule that would cover this? I wouldn't usually install a second hand item as such, but not saying they might not be good for another 100 years.

They have asked if in some way they could be earthed can they be re-used.

I haven't opened one up as had no intension of reusing them and this discussion has come to light after i visited site which isn't local.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

theres a company called `olivers` that sell repro dolly switches...
problem with the old ones is their open contacts inside and the brass fronts are often missing the card anty flash guard that they were fitted with...also the contacts often dont `snap` open or closed rather they just drift in and out..giving rise to arcing....

 

[malcolmsanford]

The problem you face really Rob is reg 511.2.

These switches may have adhered to some sort of standards when produce all those years ago, but whether they are the same standard as the BS EN 60669-1 is doubtful and if you reuse them as you can as per reg 511.2, you as the designer. installer must be able to prove that these old switches are of standard, which would be very difficult to do if anythnig went wrong

 

[GLENNSPARK]

The problem you face really Rob is reg 511.2.

These switches may have adhered to some sort of standards when produce all those years ago, but whether they are the same standard as the BS EN 60669-1 is doubtful and if you reuse them as you can as per reg 511.2, you as the designer. installer must be able to prove that these old switches are of standard, which would be very difficult to do if anythnig went wrong

well the dolly switches he`s refering to Malcolm were made up until 1967.....the `jellymould` ones tend to date from the 30s...
my mother has some that date from the edwardian age someware stashed away...they look like grenades..lol...but all tend to suffer the same problem as regards compliance...shame really...
popular manufacturers of these included LANDOR, CRABTREE AND VOLEX. there were others as well....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Rob..
save those switches wont you...together with the round or square wooden patresses they will be mounted on wont you....
their quite collectable now....especially the 2 way ones and the intermediates...oh yes, they were configured like that as well...

 

[malcolmsanford]

well the dolly switches he`s refering to Malcolm were made up until 1967.....the `jellymould` ones tend to date from the 30s...
my mother has some that date from the edwardian age someware stashed away...they look like grenades..lol...but all tend to suffer the same problem as regards compliance...shame really...
popular manufacturers of these included LANDOR, CRABTREE AND VOLEX. there were others as well....

Completely agree Glen there is a great chance apart from a lack of a CPC lug, which can easily be fitted, these switches would be spot and give another 50+ years of service as they are more than likely to have been built in a time where standards and processes are much more stringent

Unfortunately in today's world where at a drop of an hat someone is always looking for someone else to blame, if anything went wrong, the OP would have to prove in a court of law that these switches met current standards, and I personally would feel he would have a hard time to do so

 

[Robert Turnbull]

The problem you face really Rob is reg 511.2.

These switches may have adhered to some sort of standards when produce all those years ago, but whether they are the same standard as the BS EN 60669-1 is doubtful and if you reuse them as you can as per reg 511.2, you as the designer. installer must be able to prove that these old switches are of standard, which would be very difficult to do if anythnig went wrong

Cheers i was fairly sure there would be a reg that would cover this, they obviously aren't up to current standards.

This is what i had told them but i thought i better have a check.

thanks guys

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Completely agree Glen there is a great chance apart from a lack of a CPC lug, which can easily be fitted, these switches would be spot and give another 50+ years of service as they are more than likely to have been built in a time where standards and processes are much more stringent

Unfortunately in today's world where at a drop of an hat someone is always looking for someone else to blame, if anything went wrong, the OP would have to prove in a court of law that these switches met current standards, and I personally would feel he would have a hard time to do so

indeed Malc...
I have a collection of these myself...in fact i have a load of white plastic ones that were never used...still in the plain cardboard packaging they came in..lol...yes its perfectly reasonable that you could solder on a lug for R2...
and a quick R1 R2 would confirm it as well...
there would of course be an issue as well Malc with the way the fronts just unscrew....not really secure barriers & enclosures to me....

 

[Rockingit]

if anything went wrong, the OP would have to prove in a court of law that these switches met current standards, and I personally would feel he would have a hard time to do so

I guess the best he could do would be to take one apart to measure the separation distance and take a photo and also throw a load of 1kV through them on an IR based test, together with working out how to attach a cpc to the body.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

and another thing that may be of interest as well is the new wooden patreses that come with repro versions of these dolly switches are designed to cover a standard lighting knockout box....
so there you go....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I guess the best he could do would be to take one apart to measure the separation distance and take a photo and also throw a load of 1kV through them on an IR based test, together with working out how to attach a cpc to the body.

theres various places within them that would provide a good point to mount

the porcelane section would not be the issue....the brass pressing that holds the movement however...

 

[ayjay]

i have a switch made of ceramic, its round with a rotating knob
it was installed in rhinfeild house in1897 the origional electrics were installed by mining electricians
the house was powered by a 100 volt dc generator driven by a coal driven engine
sew a button on that

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i have a switch made of ceramic, its round with a rotating knob
it was installed in rhinfeild house in1897 the origional electrics were installed by mining electricians
the house was powered by a 100 volt dc generator driven by a coal driven engine
sew a button on that

fred dibnah did not live in bournemouth!!....

 

[Robert Turnbull]

Rob..
save those switches wont you...together with the round or square wooden patresses they will be mounted on wont you....
their quite collectable now....especially the 2 way ones and the intermediates...oh yes, they were configured like that as well...

I checked out olivers, they aren't those type on a wooded patress they are flat brass plates on with toggle switches.

I did a house a few years ago and collected loads of the bakelite ones and the brass ones on the wooded pattress. I had all the old wooded fuse boards with seperate neutral fuses. took everything off really carefully.

couple of weeks late i got a message that anything removed was to the handed over lol

was a huge place 2 of us there for nearly a year rewire/data/sky etc...

was full of crazy antiques, there was a hunting scene painting 2m x 4m roughly valued at 4million

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I checked out olivers, they aren't those type on a wooded patress they are flat brass plates on with toggle switches.

I did a house a few years ago and collected loads of the bakelite ones and the brass ones on the wooded pattress. I had all the old wooded fuse boards with seperate neutral fuses. took everything off really carefully.

couple of weeks late i got a message that anything removed was to the handed over lol

was a huge place 2 of us there for nearly a year rewire/data/sky etc...

was full of crazy antiques, there was a hunting scene painting 2m x 4m roughly valued at 4million

yes well the ones with the flat plates tend to date from the 30s-50s...what you will find behind that front rob is a porcelane module...their like an old type of grid switch (in fact they were often grouped as a grid on a single brass plate)....the switch contacts will be of the open type similar to the toggle switches..again, these are collectable
there still will be the associated issues with lack of a CPC and potential for arcing

 

[Fin170]

I've got a similar issue at the moment with a lady who has a load of the Bakelite switches with the screw on front, she wants to keep them but obviously does not comply to etc etc

Although she has had them for 50 years and at no point decided to unscrew the fronts and lick the terminals + they're about to be covered by RCD as well.....Still better off with them than a 99p B&Q one, I'd be happy with them in my house

Deviation note and threadlock? :lol:

 

[Robert Turnbull]

i'm back onto this subject as i have got the job we just sorting out the switching. Any one know of a replacement module i could use with the old plates.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well...theses these...

Bromleighs Antique and Period Lighting, Sockets and Switches

Classic Brass Light Switches

it may be that you can use the gubbins out of these robert....or alternatively just use the new unit...to replace the old....
there looks like some decent stuff in the classicswitches site actually....