UK Shared mains supply

[Seventies1]

Afternoon all, need a bit of advice. I live in a flat in a building which has been divided up into 6 flats, next door is a similar building of 6 flats, both buildings are owned by the same management company. When we get our service charge each year, we have noticed that it says "Landlord supply of electricity for 5 and 7 = £xxxxx /2" so the charge for communal lighting is split with next door. We always thought this to be curious until we had an electrician come and do some work in our electricity cupboard.

He pointed out there was a cable running from our communal supply meter, down through the floorboards. he also noticed that the isolation switches were doubled up, ie 2 switches for lights, 2 for sockets. Only one of these switches affected our lights or sockets. We called the supplier and they confirmed that there was no landlords supply for 7 (we are 5) We knocked at 7 and they told us they had no meters for landlords supply, only their own meters for th individual flats, as do we.

So my question is: Is this legal?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Do you own the flat or rent.

 

[Seventies1]

We, at No 5 all own our flats, the flats in 7 are all (but 1) rented from the management Company.

 

[littlespark]

Sounds like the flats were originally all rented out, and the communal lighting split among all renters.
As flats were sold off, no one thought to question this and it’s remained.
It’s something the original buyers solicitor (and every subsequent solicitor) should have picked up on. Although if everyone pays the same, there shouldn’t be a problem.

how much does it come to for each flat? Can’t be much.

 

[Seventies1]

Thanks for the reply. Well we are paying, on average, £105 per month for intermittant communal lighting and sockets which are only used when the caretaker plugs in the hoover. This is around 4 times what a two bedroom flat uses in a month. I understand there is something called a looped supply, but there should be a meter in the other property.

 

[littlespark]

Ouch. Is that 105 each?
that’s ridiculous for a few lights.
It doesn’t matter how it’s metered if the understanding is that it’s shared equally among all residents in both blocks.

I wonder if someone has tapped off the communal supply for their own use....

maybe you need to contact the management co. of the other block. There must be a way to reduce that.... LED lamps or sensor type lights that only work when someone is in the stairwell.

 

[Seventies1]

Thanks once again, yes £105 per flat. An issue is that next year we are going to apply for a Right To Manage which we will be unable to do if the other property shares a supply with us. I thought each property had to have its own meters and RCD switches for safety?

 

[SJD]

Is this £105 per flat the actual amount paid to the electric supplier, or is the landlord adding some "'mark-up" of their own?

If you are not sure, you could make monthly readings if you have access to the meter, and check if the amount billed anyway tallies with the usage recorded by the meter.

 

[Seventies1]

Thanks SJD, The bills do tally with the Electricity bills, so there is not much doubt it is what the two buildings are using. As soon as we get our Right to Manage we can go for LED lighting etc, but right now, we have no control over what next door is actually using.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Thanks SJD, The bills do tally with the Electricity bills, so there is not much doubt it is what the two buildings are using. As soon as we get our Right to Manage we can go for LED lighting etc, but right now, we have no control over what next door is actually using.

i would take it up with the management company telling them that they are stealing electric from you and the other person ,and ask them to see the covermount of the building in which the building stands on ,and go from there .i also do litigation in my spare time like taking down the bad boys .lol.

 

[Seventies1]

The Management company are not on site, these are two 1900 buildings which share a management company. The cost of electricity is caused by inefficient lighting which we cannot resolve until we take over management of our building, No 5. We cannot take over the running of our building until we have our own utility supply.

 

[snowhead]

Is that £105 p.m divided over the 12 flats or £105 each flat?

Electricity cannot be resold at a higher price than paid, so whatever the Management are charging has to match the cost they pay.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/74486/11782-resaleupdateoct05pdf

The (minor) issue is going to be the fact no.5 has the only Landlords metered supply so when no.5 takes over the management a new Landlords supply will have to arranged for no.7.
The cost will have to be negotiated as to whether no.7 Landlord pays or the costs be split between the 2.

 

[davesparks]

This all seems a bit odd.

If you switch off the fuse board connected to the landlord supply do the lights go off in number 7?

Request a copy of the bill for this supply from the management company, check that this is based on actual meter readings and not estimated. Also check that the management company have not added any markup to the bill, this would be illegal.

 

[DPG]

Sounds like someone is making a good bit of profit here.

 

[7029 dave]

I would switch the LL cu/switch gear off and see what communal circuits go off, and if any are still on, then do the same for each flat at the origin one by one to prove who is paying for what.

 

[Seventies1]

Thanks for the replies, all very useful. We have identified that 2 of the RCD switches are associated with our building, lights and sockets. We switched off the other lights one and the communal lights in 7 went out, we assume the sockets one would have the same effect. The Electricity bill is based on actual reads, not estimates and the bills we are paying are reflected in the elec bills, so the amount we are paying is accurate.

The issue is there are outside sodium lights which are on a timer 12 hours a day for both properties, this is obviously the culprit and we have asked the MAnagement Company to remove/replace, as they own all but 1 of the flats in 7, they are refusing.

Hence the reason for us in 5 to go for a right to manage, we cannot do this while we share a utility supply with 7. So we need to find a way of forcing a seperate supply to 7, so they can be billed for what they use and we can be billed for what we use. Then we can get our Right to Manage and install efficient LED lights.

Our question is: Is there a legal/safety route we can go down to force this feed to 7 to be disconnected and a seperate meter point to be installed in 7?

 

[snowhead]

Whoever is doing /going to be doing the legal work for the Right to Manage will be able to sort out the correct way to force the situation with the L-L supply.
It won't be the first time this has happened so they should be familiar with it.

As it is now the Management and their contractors will have right of access to the L-L meter and supply.
At the changeover to Right to Manage this right of access should be removed, that means the L-L cannot maintain their supply to no 7 and would need to arrange a new supply.
I doubt they will be eager to do this so it may end up with no 7 taking over Management and then give the L-L notice to remove thier connection in no 5.

 

[davesparks]

The issue is there are outside sodium lights which are on a timer 12 hours a day for both properties, this is obviously the culprit and we have asked the MAnagement Company to remove/replace, as they own all but 1 of the flats in 7, they are refusing.

Then we can get our Right to Manage and install efficient LED lights.

Sodium lamps and LED are generally the same energy efficiency, depending on exact brand of LED and the technology they use they could be slightly less efficient than the existing sodium lamps.
Don't just assume that your bills will do down because you have installed LED lighting.

Why not adjust the timeswitch so that they are only on at night instead of 12 hours?
Or change the timeswitch for one which automatically tracks dusk/dawn?

 

[snowhead]

Adding to above, instead of just changing the sodiums directly for L.E.D an approppriate lighting scheme needs designing just as has been done when street lights went /go to L.E.D.
A good bit of the saving came from reduced numbers of lights and better positoning of the new L.E.D.

The road I live on had 5 Sodiums on columns, when they were changed to LED it ended up with 4 columns with LED and the pavement and street are fully and better lit and brighter than with the 5.
Immediately there's a 20% saving.

 

[Seventies1]

The sodium lights are timed to be on between 9pm - 9am. As noted above, the idea is to change them to motion sensed LED as the lights cover the car park and front entrance and should only come on when someone gets out of their car or approaches the front door. That is where we hope to make the saving.