Should the UK pay up? UK told to pay £1.7bn extra to EU

[micknew]

Brilliant posts by UNG, total common sense reply's.

 

[rapparee]

I am of the belief the eu has become too unweildly but i think there needs to be more intregration not less to overcome the current problems. If the uk decides to isolate itself from the eu it will be turning its back on its biggest export market €275bn a year. Free trade is linked to free movement of goods and free movement of people

 

[dingledong]

Yes your right but no one is going there every one is coming here !

 

[Octopus]

The problem with the EU is the fact that there are so many poorer countries involved now, they will do anything to prevent reform that would mean they would get less money.

this and this alone will hold the eu back for decades wilst the bricks motor on ahead regardless. Europe could well end up being a poor continent in the not too distant future

 

[micknew]

The problem with the EU is the fact that there are so many poorer countries involved now, they will do anything to prevent reform that would mean they would get less money.

this and this alone will hold the eu back for decades wilst the bricks motor on ahead regardless. Europe could well end up being a poor continent in the not too distant future

Totally agree Murdock.

 

[rapparee]

Yes your right but no one is going there every one is coming here !

And if you dont allow europeans into uk then the europeans wont allow uk manufactured goods into europe

 

[dingledong]

Why won't they ,can't see your reasoning there young man

 

[rapparee]

Why won't they ,can't see your reasoning there young man

Because eu president jose manuel barroso has warned cameron any restriction on free movement or an exit from eu will result in the end of free trade with the eu.

On a personal note considering my entitlement to uk and roi passports it may open up a new career importing/exporting goods between dublin and belfast

 

[rapparee]

The problem with the EU is the fact that there are so many poorer countries involved now, they will do anything to prevent reform that would mean they would get less money.

this and this alone will hold the eu back for decades wilst the bricks motor on ahead regardless. Europe could well end up being a poor continent in the not too distant future

Id be of the opinion a rising tide lifts all boats, look how eu membership has transformed ireland and portugal by givinv them access to bigger markets.

 

[dingledong]

It's transformed Portugal . Really

 

[trev]

Given the state of the UK economy just now Cameron's handling of this could turn into a disaster of biblical proportions.
However, come December 2nd he'll have the cheque book out.
More borrowing that will be blamed on someone else

 

[Octopus]

Because eu president jose manuel barroso has warned cameron any restriction on free movement or an exit from eu will result in the end of free trade with the eu

He's like a spoilt child!

 

[rapparee]

It's transformed Portugal . Really

They only joined in 1986 the uk and irl joined in 1973

 

[not clever]

If we say no to the EU I predict, the frenchie papers will hype the EU rhetoric & you'll see wagon loads of UK meat being burnt at the dockside.....................again

 

[rapparee]

He's like a spoilt child!

You cant have your cake and eat it

 

[Octopus]

You cant have your cake and eat it

I don't want my cake and to eat it.

This "demand" for extra funds has resulted in a calculation that assesses the economies of Europe since 1995, yes 1995, that's 19 years ago.

Talk about incompetence.

This should also alert all of Europe as to the poor way the EU is funded, especially if you take Germany for example - they have a huge trade surplus, yet they are entitled to a refund. Stupid

My main point is that this calculation goes back so far - WHY?

Just imagine opening a letter from HMRC today and them telling you that they have decided to recalculate you tax for the last 19 years - how would you feel?

I recall the EU talking about 7 year budget settlements - so why can't thay make a reassessment every 7 years?

BBC News - EU budget anger - UK is not alone

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Portugal doesn't need transforming.

the people are charming, and I love hundreds of miles of unspoilt cork forests.

its a poor country. Probably always will be! They're not suddenly going to become fabulously rich like Abu Dhabi

 

[silverfox1]

And if you dont allow europeans into uk then the europeans wont allow uk manufactured goods into europe

Trade is a two way street, as MDJ pointed out we are big importers from EU so if UK increase import taxes on goods from EU the likes of German car industry , not to mention Bosch, Siemens and others in France and Italy will surely suffer, businessmen are not politicians they want profits and will surely kick up a stink.

 

[silverfox1]

As far as I know the EU have still not been able to show how they have calculated the figures for the money the UK and other countries owe or how the rebates were calculated, the fact that the EU's accounts have not been signed off by accountants for 19 years in a row makes you wonder just how much can they be trusted.

 

[UNG]

"And a number of people are put down by others being told that there source is not true because they read the wrong news stand rag yet they never state or substantiate their sources, so there is another cop out by some"
However, if someone makes a statement as fact then they should be able to back that statement up when challenged

So why don't you state your sources when putting others down

And if you dont allow europeans into uk then the europeans wont allow uk manufactured goods into europe

Are they coming to work or sponge off the state

Because eu president jose manuel barroso has warned cameron any restriction on free movement or an exit from eu will result in the end of free trade with the eu.

Of the EU it will be bankrupt, it's on the brink now

On a personal note considering my entitlement to uk and roi passports it may open up a new career importing/exporting goods between dublin and belfast

A bit of bootlegging

Id be of the opinion a rising tide lifts all boats, look how eu membership has transformed ireland and portugal by givinv them access to bigger markets.

They already had access to those markets before if the tariff was paid.
The Euro has transformed (oops screwed up) so many member states economies because each member states economy isn't on the same level you only have to look at Greece and Spain to see that Portugal isn't that far behind in hitting rock bottom

 

[SPARTYKUS]

As far as I know the EU have still not been able to show how they have calculated the figures for the money the UK and other countries owe or how the rebates were calculated, the fact that the EU's accounts have not been signed off by accountants for 19 years in a row makes you wonder just how much can they be trusted.

... In the real world, no one would pay for something that the calculation of, could not be demonstrated!!! Haha! Thats ridiculous!

 

[thekingiam]

It wasn,t long ago we tried bailing out other countries who couldnt pay have we had that monney back first of all

 

[UNG]

It wasn,t long ago we tried bailing out other countries who couldnt pay have we had that monney back first of all

I believe that was some of the extra borrowing the UK incurred we loaned to Ireland at an agreed interest rate then they renegotiated the interest rate down a while after because they decided it was to high

 

[rapparee]

I believe that was some of the extra borrowing the UK incurred we loaned to Ireland at an agreed interest rate then they renegotiated the interest rate down a while after because they decided it was to high

The cost of the loan to ireland was lowered because the cost of the uks own borrowings came down, it was restructured into something resembling a tracker mortgage where ireland pays the uks costs plus 0.18%. So there is hardly a loss being made by the uk

 

[Guest111]

All the supposed excuses for not finding the illegals makes me laugh,during the war Hitler managed quite easily to round up millions of Jews,and conduct a war against virtually every country in europe.Surely it can't be that hard for us to get our act together and round up the illegals? Don't want to seems more like the real reason.

 

[trev]

Phil to some extent I agree with you but the Borders Agency are short staffed and short funded. Where do you suggest they start?
Sure they'll hit a few and round some up but word soon gets around and they'll start to go to ground. Don't forget, going from a lot of illegals that have been caught they're often kept hidden by people who are using them as slave labour. There was one caught round our way a couple of months ago, he'd been traficced here and put to work in a cannabis farm. He wasn't allowed to leave and once a week people would drop food off for him.
A cop with a good sense of smell was his downfall. He's now back in Vietnam (or he was anyway)

 

[Guest111]

That's the problem Trev,the government keeps cutting back then say they can't catch people.It makes you wonder if they're bothered at all.

 

[UNG]

Phil to some extent I agree with you but the Borders Agency are short staffed and short funded. Where do you suggest they start?

They could start by stopping all the appeals to every court in the land and those that are not. It's easy for any of these government bodies to say they are short staffed and short funded but are they making the best use of and maximising the resources they have, there is so much waste in a lot of these government dept's and some of the incompetence and lack of communication beggars belief

Sure they'll hit a few and round some up but word soon gets around and they'll start to go to ground. Don't forget, going from a lot of illegals that have been caught they're often kept hidden by people who are using them as slave labour. There was one caught round our way a couple of months ago, he'd been traficced here and put to work in a cannabis farm. He wasn't allowed to leave and once a week people would drop food off for him.
A cop with a good sense of smell was his downfall. He's now back in Vietnam (or he was anyway)

Seen a few rounded up over the years and you just know that some will get back in without being challenged

 

[trev]

"They could start by stopping all the appeals to every court in the land and those that are not."
Interesting. Everyone is entitled to the protection under the law, that includes the right to appeal to a higher court if a lower one has made an incorrect decision.
Or should we just do away with the tiresome and expensive legal system and lock everyone up who is suspected of a crime?
Maybe this is a subject for another thread though

 

[dingledong]

Surely an illegal is not suspected of a crime ,he is doing a crime .you get them ,hold them and within 3 days you deport them .
Now what is hard about that

 

[UNG]

"They could start by stopping all the appeals to every court in the land and those that are not."
Interesting. Everyone is entitled to the protection under the law, that includes the right to appeal to a higher court if a lower one has made an incorrect decision.
Or should we just do away with the tiresome and expensive legal system and lock everyone up who is suspected of a crime?
Maybe this is a subject for another thread though

You or I would probably never get the funding necessary that some seem to get to continue the appeals process they persue they seem to get into a never ending appeals loop that just perpetually goes on and on. I'm all for protection under the law but there has to be a limit

 

[trev]

This mythical "they" which keeps being referred to. If someone is illegal and is caught they are out as soon as their country of origin is established.
The only people who are entitled to the protection of British law, and thus the right to appeal, are British citizens, those granted right of abode or leave to remain. .
I've never seen a case before the Court of Appeal which has involved an illegal.
I'm willing to be corrected though

 

[shanky887614]

This mythical "they" which keeps being referred to. If someone is illegal and is caught they are out as soon as their country of origin is established.
The only people who are entitled to the protection of British law, and thus the right to appeal, are British citizens, those granted right of abode or leave to remain. .
I've never seen a case before the Court of Appeal which has involved an illegal.
I'm willing to be corrected though

sorry but they should be put on the first boat or whatever out of the country, there is free travel within the eu so get them off the island

 

[rapparee]

The debate is sliding from free travel of eu citizens and about the inwards migration of african and aisan asylum seekers. Failed asylum seekers should be removed as soon as final appeal has failed

 

[Guest77]

The debate is sliding from free travel of eu citizens and about the inwards migration of african and aisan asylum seekers. Failed asylum seekers should be removed as soon as final appeal has failed

There are several Hard right wing enthusiasts here, any debate ends up talking about African asylum seekers, even if we are talking about white women becomming leaders of their parties lmao.

 

[shanky887614]

There are several Hard right wing enthusiasts here, any debate ends up talking about African asylum seekers, even if we are talking about white women becomming leaders of their parties lmao.

i think there are a lot of secret bnp supporters here

 

[Guest77]

Oh god yeah, several, without a doubt.

 

[rapparee]

I see this bill has been cut to £850m

 

[Darkwood]

No it hasn't ... we are still paying the 1.7 but due to the delay it has been offset by rebate we were going to get anyway next year.... smoke and mirrors, nothings changed except the dates, they have not made a victory by halving the amount, that was a given anyway. Had we payed 1.7billion on dec 1 then net year we still would have got the 850million rebate, all the goverment has done is use the rebate that was already known to be coming and make it look like a victory for Cam' ..... its treating the public as stupid and tbh most are but it offends me that they think we wouldn't see through it.

 

[Octopus]

Talking of smoke and mirrors - can anyone explain to me how the contributions the countries makes are calculated?

 

[Darkwood]

Talking of smoke and mirrors - can anyone explain to me how the contributions the countries makes are calculated?

Net GDP but the EU revised it to include money spent on prostitution and drug....... errmm now can't remember the last time I saw a tax return from a pimp!.. nor how you can calculate it either, a last ditch attemp on the EU's part to milk the cash cow just in case we leave.

 

[Octopus]

Net GDP but the EU revised it to include money spent on prostitution and drug....... errmm now can't remember the last time I saw a tax return from a pimp!.. nor how you can calculate it either, a last ditch attemp on the EU's part to milk the cash cow just in case we leave.

I heard it reported that they estimate the "black economy" - how the hell do they do that?

As I previously asked can anyone link to the calculations?

 

[rapparee]

No it hasn't ... we are still paying the 1.7 but due to the delay it has been offset by rebate we were going to get anyway next year.... smoke and mirrors, nothings changed except the dates, they have not made a victory by halving the amount, that was a given anyway. Had we payed 1.7billion on dec 1 then net year we still would have got the 850million rebate, all the goverment has done is use the rebate that was already known to be coming and make it look like a victory for Cam' ..... its treating the public as stupid and tbh most are but it offends me that they think we wouldn't see through it.

So what is the craic, if they hadn't of paid the £1.7bn they would still have got the extra £850m coming to them anyhow.

 

[Darkwood]

So what is the craic, if they hadn't of paid the £1.7bn they would still have got the extra £850m coming to them anyhow.

If we refused to pay the 1.7billion do you honestly think the EU would have give us the rebate... they are crooks and money launderers they have 10 of billions of Euro's un-accounted for in their audits, some has gone missing and is linked to funding terrorist groups, its a complete shambles ....

It just takes someone with guts to say Yes! Ill pay your 1.7billion as you want but I need to see your accounts and that your spending my investment wisely, only one person ever challenged the EU and its lack of accountability for all the missing money that was a rising figure in politics Mr Nigel Farage at one of the EU nations meetings, the EU's response was to ask why he was so against the EU and he replied - wasn't my question to an unelected head of the EU a very good reason on its own merit!
The fact is if the EU was a bank it would have been closed down and those in high jobs would have been jailed for fraud but no its the EU and has no accountability to anyone.

 

[rapparee]

Is the uk rebate not set in stone. 2/3 of surplus cash returned to uk to make up for the low common agricultural policy payments the uk recieves.

 

[UNG]

If we refused to pay the 1.7billion do you honestly think the EU would have give us the rebate... they are crooks and money launderers they have 10 of billions of Euro's un-accounted for in their audits, some has gone missing and is linked to funding terrorist groups, its a complete shambles ....

It just takes someone with guts to say Yes! Ill pay your 1.7billion as you want but I need to see your accounts and that your spending my investment wisely, only one person ever challenged the EU and its lack of accountability for all the missing money that was a rising figure in politics Mr Nigel Farage at one of the EU nations meetings, the EU's response was to ask why he was so against the EU and he replied - wasn't my question to an unelected head of the EU a very good reason on its own merit!
The fact is if the EU was a bank it would have been closed down and those in high jobs would have been jailed for fraud but no its the EU and has no accountability to anyone.

Wasn't Kinnock the EU commissioner who was appointed to sort out the accountability issue I seem to recall the senior auditor at the time refused to sign off the accounts it was sorted out though they fired her and found somebody who would

 

[Guest77]

Political parties aside, we have to pay the Money, we signed up and agreed to it, end of, the bullsh%te over the last week or so from the Chancellor is purely down to next may and the back benchers supporting UKIP, if it was a year or two into the term it would have been settled and we would never had heard a thing from anyone, all bullsh%te.

 

[Octopus]

Politics aside, one Tony Blair gave up 50% of our rebate in 2003 or 2004 in exchange for reform of the CAP - which has never happened. I also heard on the radio today that UK plc is still going to give £2 billion pounds to the Euro "fund".

Seems to me we are bending over and getting shafted all the time.

 

[Darkwood]

At the end of the day, politics is about stealth, slight of hand and illusions.

People will vote for a party that puts £100 pound in their pocket not realising they are taking an extra £200 out of their pockets in hidden costs and taxes.
This is unfortunately the reality of this country as education is at an all time low and voting like always is usually a poor turnout (scots referendum aside).... the people cannot choose who is best to run the country when they don't understand basic politics, so until it becomes part of the education system we will always be run by the best magicians.

 

[Octopus]

The problem with the companies employing "foreigners" comes back to poor parenting, poor schooling & exam results and the plethora ort stupid TV programmes advocating becoming a "star" and getting paid silly amounts of money for doing SFA.

Parents and kids alike, across the UK from ALL back grounds need to understand that there isn't a pot of gold awaiting after school irrespective of exam results, nor are "entry" jobs well paid, and that career progression requires dedication to the job, turning up on time EVERY day and on occassions doing some unpaid extras.