Single Pole Fused Switched Spur?

[Ocelot7]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum and the trade so please be gentle!

I've recently rewired a kitchen with 7 appliances on one ring circuit and each appliance has a switched fused spur to isolate the related socket.
I'm only switching the live in each spur, so the neon on each spur is not lighting up (sockets are working though).
Is there such a thing as a single pole fused switched spur with a neon that I could use instead?
It's not possible to run another cable now so that i can use the double pole spur.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Geoffsd]

I'm only switching the live in each spur,

Why?

so the neon on each spur is not lighting up (sockets are working though).

Do you mean you haven't connected the neutral to the switch?

Is there such a thing as a single pole fused switched spur with a neon that I could use instead?

You don't want a SP switch.

It's not possible to run another cable now so that i can use the double pole spur.

You shouldn't need to?

 

[Paul.M]

Ocelot7, what do you want to achieve from your installation?

From what I read you dont want a neon fsu so just change them to none neon ones mate.

ps welcome to the forum.

 

[1shortcircuit]

Did you IR test the circuit before energising? If so and carried out incorrectly you may have blown the neon.

Also, 13A connection units should not protect sockets that use a 13A fuse in a plug due to discrimination issues. This is where 20 Amp double pole isolators should be used.

I personally avoid neons like the plague, if there is a way of not using them than that's the route I opt for. Sometimes though it is necessary to use them to indicate that a certain device has been left on.

:thumbsup

 

[daiplayer]

just change em for double pole switches mate. the spare FCU's will always come in handy in the van so it wont be a loss.
http://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/mk-20a-dp-switch-with-neon-white/13014

also : welcome

 

[Swicade]

I'm confused as to why your only switching the live and not the neutral aswell.....doesn't sit right with me at all.

Double pole switching should be the norm in my opinion (i only install DP sockets and wont entertain the single pole stuff (light switchs are a different story of course))

Double pole switches as has already been suggested is the way to go if supplying socket outlets due to discrimination as 1shortcircuit says. I'd only use Double Pole switch fused spurs if the appliances were wired into a connection outlet plate instead of a socket so it would have fused protection.

 

[1shortcircuit]

It would be interesting to know what tests have been carried out on the circuit.

 

[Richard Burns]

Have you wired the SFCU like a light switch and taken a loop T&E (Line and switched line) from the socket and up to the SFCU?
This is the only way I can see that you would be able to only switch the line and not have a neutral available to connect.
This is not an appropriate way to wire this.

If you have wired it so that you have taken the supply to the SFCU, only disconnected the line core so as to switch through the SFCU and then taken the cable to the socket then you should be able to modify this so that you can also connect the neutral in the SFCU and get the neon to work. (The cpc should also be connected in the SFCU).

 

[MarkieSparkie]

All SFCUs complying with BS1363 are double pole switching, only pre BS1363 SFCUs and counterfeit BS1363 SFCUs are likely to be single pole switching.

 

[Paul.M]

I've read the opning post ten times now and I think what he has done is to terminate the supply and load neutrals in the load side, the live as per normal (of a dp fsu) but connected the neon N to the load term and thats why it/they dont light up but the sockets work.


Its too late to look at the op again just trying to work out what is happening and what he wants. Hope h comes back to us in the morning.

 

[Ocelot7]

Morning all and thanks for the replies.
I'll try and clarify what I have done.
The live that would normally feed the socket (if there was to be no SFCU) is going into a connector block with the live to the next socket.
Also in that block is the live of a separate T+E cable which runs to the SFCU supply live terminal.
The neutral core of this T+E is connected to the load live terminal of the SFCU and back to the socket live terminal, feeding the socket.
So the socket works fine but the neon doesn't light up, which I assume is because there is no neutral being switched in the SFCU.
Is this a legal or accepted way of doing this as it's being tested this morning at 11 !

 

[needasparks]

Never seen someone fit a three plate switched socket before, it only had to be a matter of time.
Please post a picture.

 

[telectrix]

looks to me a right recipe for disaster. i'd be inclined to ditch the FCUs and just wire the sockets.

 

[Octopus]

Is this a legal or accepted way of doing this as it's being tested this morning at 11 !

Think you need to have your toolbox to hand as me thinks you'll be doing remedials.

Why aren't you testing it? Surely you did dead tests first?

 

[Swicade]

In truth if i was to turn up to test the circuit described i'd take one look at it....likely go outside for a smoke, return to have another look and fail it just on visual inspection (while slowly shaking my head thinking wtf?).

It's not a lightswitch...it's a double pole SFS which requires switching of Live and Neutral...the clue's for a novice are on the switch to be fair

 

[telectrix]

one of the main reasons for fitting double pole FCUs (apart from the safety aspect) is that if the appliance were to develop a N-E fault, causing RCd tripping, then by the simple flick of a switch, that fault is isolated and thr RCD can be reset.

 

[Jonny66]

Ok, it's not a light switch agreed and why any electrician would wire it this way is beyond me, but just out of interest what would you fail it on specifically? unconventional wiring?

I know it's not following manufactures instructions and neon doesn't work, but if I understand correctly how the op has wired this (with connectors at s/o under the worktop up to FCU with T&E) then the only other thing I can think of is -- anyone working on said socket would expect it to be dead when FCU is switched off, although the socket would be dead ,the connectors would still be live. However, you should be testing dead before working on anything.

As for double pole isolation I dont think it is required for compliance on TN installations (MCBs are single pole) only for TT...I maybe wrong......although I do understand what Telectrix is saying above, I dont think this makes it non-compliant or am I wrong?

Just out of interest Ocelot7, are you an electrician and if so why have you wired it like this? on all 7 FCUs?

 

[trev]

I have to agree with all the others here, I don't understand why you haven't used the terminals available to you. Every switched fused spur I've ever seen has had terminals for supply and load so the need for connectors has never existed.
Please explain your method mate

 

[Richard Burns]

Ocelot7 the way you have the SFCUs wired will not allow a neon to operate without rewiring.

I would suggest that rewiring would be a good idea. As jonny66 says this may be technically permissible but it is not a good way to proceed as you will have learnt from the above posts.

I have drawn a quick diagram and believe you have wired as in the top version whereas they should be wired as in the bottom version. I would suggest that you employ the second method in future.

If you really are unable to rewire then I would definitely put an explanation with the CU to explain the unconventional wiring method, and you would need to change the FCUs for non neon ones. However this is a work around and not a solution, for a new installation it should be correct.

 

[Ocelot7]

Thank you for all your help and advice.
I realise that this was a very stupid mistake to make and will be one I won't make again.

By luck more than design, I have managed to get a cable from the first and last sockets on the ring to their related spurs.
At the socket ends I connected this to the supply from the CCU.
At the spur end I connected this cable to the supply of the spur (all 7) to provide a feed. Then used the original T+E at each spur to connect to the load terminals and on to each socket.
So it is now wired the way that Richard Burns has shown in his diagram.
Sockets are working, neons are working. It passed the inspection.
Phew!
I'm only 19 and this was my first job on my own. I know it's no excuse but we all make mistakes.
Once again, Thanks for the help!