Some advice on pricing and tendering a very large job please

[lloyd1980]

Hello all.

I have been invited to tender for a large job.
10 duplex penthouse apartments, outside lighting, foyer lighting, intercom entry system, emergency lighting, telephone and sat.

This is bigger than anything I have been asked to tender for before.

Can I ask the advice of members who do jobs this size all the time a few questions.

On a job of this scale, would you submit a fixed price quotation or would it be an estimate ?
I will be getting a contract of works drawn up which will outline what they can expect from me and what I expect from them, payments etc.

How do you set up your payment structure ? deposit then weekly stage payments, or deposit then invoice per 1st fix on each flat ?
If fixed price how would this be affected by any unforeseen delays additional work which costs you time and or money ?
In my experience its almost impossible to price large jobs accurately due to unforeseen delays which always tend happen and I want to make money, not end up with the job costing me money.

would you give an indicative cost per point ?

What is the general rule when it comes to dealing with these developers, obviously this is a BIG job and I want to make as much as possible on it but at the same time don't know who i'm pricing against or want to go in too high.

If you are doing 10 flats and other work would you generally do each flat for less than you would do it individually, or would you use the job to increase your margins?

I'm hoping if I get it awarded then this is the break i've been waiting for to expand my business.

Really appreciate your help and advice in advance.

Thank you.

 

[DurhamSparky]

get an electrical QS to survery they plans and quote list all required items..! much easier!

 

[lloyd1980]

When would I call in an electrical QS surveyor ? and who would cover the cost of this ?
I think this would be needed to price prior to being awarded the job, if I then didn't get given the job then who foots the bill for this QS guy, I imagine they don't come cheap either. thank you for the reply.

 

[adam1984]

I do take off's / Estimating but not Wiring / Electrical etc. (completley different trade)

What I would do is break donw each flat induvidually and price them that way. Quantify every electrical item per flat (i.e socket face, lights, alarms, switches etc) and work out your cable runs and how much cable you are going to need.

The materials is the easy bit. You can combine the 10 flats materials together and ask your Wholesaler to give you a project rate for them.

The tricky bit is adding your labour and time. Only you will now how long its going to take you / your crew to wire each flat up.

I would add 10-15% to the price of materials and put a clause in the Saying "Prices are subject to all future manufacturers increases"

Unfortunately I cannot comment on the payment plan but it would appear that you will be working for a Main contractor and they will expect you to have decent credit terms with your suppliers etc.. and enough money to pay labour upfront before any payment is given to you. It is not unheard of for them to work to 90 days terms (in the industry I work in anyway)

Hope thats of a little help.

Adam

 

[Arnold Layne]

Lloyd, welcome to contracting. As Adam said the way to price this is to do a take off. Bear in mind that if you are working for a Main Contractor you will probably be in competition with others who are experienced in this.In the commercial world the risk is all yours. So the cost of doing the estimate is down to you. Deposits up front are not a feature of the commercial sector either. Payment on 90 days terms are the norm although 180 days are not unheard of. You need to look at the contract to establish what the payment terms are and other conditions for that matter. Expect to see retention clauses. You need to build these conditions into your calculations. I don't know where you are geographically but some regions are more competitive than others. Have you asked how many other bidders there are? Has the Main Contractor actually got this work? Have you been asked for a Lump sum? Main Contractors don't normally place an order based on an "estimate"...they need cost certainty. These are some of the things I would consider were I you. Good luck!

 

[glasgowbiker42]

Agree, with everything Arnold say's and i have been estimating projects up to £10 million for 25 years.
I was given a very good piece of advise many years ago from a very successfull business man in the scottish electrical contracting industry which was never take anything on you can't afford to lose.
Also big isn't always better!

 

[lloyd1980]

Thank you guys, especially Arnold for the detailed advice.
its a group of developers who have bought the flats, I have a contact who knows them and I would be working directly for them not for a main building contractor.
Ive met them and they seem genuine.
Ive had general floor plans but no electrical spec as of yet which I've requested from them.
obviously a contract would be drawn up and I would hope payment terms I could live with considering the subbys I'd need (and have to pay) every week.

 

[darrens1973]

we pay subbies monthly after the 6th of the month so our CIS payments are the following month, we have some clients that pay regularly and others that can take upto 180 days, then there are the ones that take 24 months but they are another story !!!
You really need to think to yourself what would happen if you screwed the price up or you had to have guys on site to assist the developer when he is boarding etc, things you can never price in and rarely get paid for either. Can you survive taking a hit if they go ---- too, all things to think about !!! Good luck, dont think you have to take the first large opportunity either, there will be more.