SY Cable? Thoughts?

[Leroy Merlin]

A few points to note:-

SY cable does not comply to British Standards in using it you will have:-
A- understand why it does not comply.
B- document its use and why you believe it is suitable for your installation.

The use of this cable in the industry brought it big concerns and was clearly been used for purposes it was never designed for or was suitable for.
If you have it on or around machinery where it may come into contact with the normal oils, greases, coolants etc used then it should not be used.
If it is subject to possible damage then it should not be chosen in the mindset that it is a armoured flex, it is not it is a screened flex which can afford some kinds of damage a standard flex couldn't but also it is prone to damage where other flexes would be resistant IE UV damage, outer sheath is softer than standard pvc environmental covering and it has low resistance to chemicals and oils.

I conclude this cable should not even be in our industry, it is mi-sold, misused and has forced the regulatory bodies to step it and express its use does not conform to our recognised standards.

I have a pet hate of this cable because of the amount of times I have seen the result of its poor application, I have in 2 decades found several times that damaged cable has made the sheath live and in some cases given uses shocks simply because of misuse and the wrong applications of its use.

I would say if you have routine machine movement for maintenance and cleaning then wire it with a suitable HO7RN-F a cable designed for the purpose of most industrial environments and put it on a plug and socket arrangement so it can be disconnected, I have done this for many decades and never had issues, if you find you are then the operators/employees need educating and taught how to clean and service the machines safely.

Thanks for the replies, I'll pass this upstairs... Just spoke with RS and asked if they could confirm if it was OK to use in the UK and if they have any BS7671 compliant SY, as you would expect, they said not...

 

[Darkwood]

Here is an informative read up ...

Should SY, YY and CY cables be used in electrical installations? - https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/should-sy-yy-and-cy-cables-be-used

PS - I will admit I use it myself but only when I know that it is suitable and not subject to any environmental concerns, I use CY for motor VSD control and sometimes the motor supply as it affords a suitable screening.

 

[Spoon]

Thanks for the replies, I'll pass this upstairs... Just spoke with RS and asked if they could confirm if it was OK to use in the UK and if they have any BS7671 compliant SY, as you would expect, they said not...

I remember when I noticed the manufacturers has put the 'not suitable for fixed installations' note on their SY cables, RS cables had not added this note for their SY cables. I contacted them, showing them the other cable manufacturers notes and asked if their cable was suitable for fixed installations. They said they they would changed the description of theirs to suit the other manufacturers.

 

[suffolkspark]

 

[Spoon]

View attachment 45609

There you go mate. Nice screen shot of it.

 

[suffolkspark]

Cheers i took mine on my phone last night as was having this very chat with another spark who was wiring up a joule cylinder and heat pumps and the manufacturers instructions sugested using SY!!!

 

[Deuce]

Guess that's this debate ended then.

Got to say though, I see the h07 get damaged all the time too. Mostly deep nicks in the outer sheath. In fairness, in my industry 20m lengths of it are dragged around and left laid on the floor/gravel/grass whatever - and then walked over for a couple of weeks before getting dragged back into a flight case

 

[Spoon]

Cheers i took mine on my phone last night as was having this very chat with another spark who was wiring up a joule cylinder and heat pumps and the manufacturers instructions sugested using SY!!!

I can cheat. We got the 18th and OSG for work. I took them to bits and PDF/OCR them. Makes it so you search them easily.

 

[Midwest]

Here is an informative read up ...

Should SY, YY and CY cables be used in electrical installations? - https://www.voltimum.co.uk/articles/should-sy-yy-and-cy-cables-be-used

PS - I will admit I use it myself but only when I know that it is suitable and not subject to any environmental concerns, I use CY for motor VSD control and sometimes the motor supply as it affords a suitable screening.

Didn’t Massive 1 already post that link?

 

[Darkwood]

Guess that's this debate ended then.

Got to say though, I see the h07 get damaged all the time too. Mostly deep nicks in the outer sheath. In fairness, in my industry 20m lengths of it are dragged around and left laid on the floor/gravel/grass whatever - and then walked over for a couple of weeks before getting dragged back into a flight case

I suggest it is not that the cables are a poor choice but the fact you are running them along the ground in a harsh environment, you need to look into other suitable means like cable protection channelling like they use on road works etc, we have this set up in the factories I work in, also voltages used should be considered IE 110v gear.

I understand that sometimes they cables will be subject to some wear and tear but if this is the case then more routine checks and replacement may be the only real answer but I struggle to see that there isn't any other solutions, we have in the past dug the floors up and put cable raceways in to allow power points at better suited positions minimising extension runs.

 

[Midwest]

I recall in another piece on this subject, that if a designer was to use such a cable in a BS7671 installation, then it would have to be noted as a departure from BS7671 and reg 120.3 would have to apply.

 

[davesparks]

Cheers, I think the powers that be want the extra mechanical protection though...

But SY has no extra mechanical protection. Heavy duty flex such as H07RNF is more mechanically strong and probably better suited to the job.

 

[Tes369]

And the cost ?

 

[Spoon]

And the cost ?

See post #11 mate

 

[Deuce]

I suggest it is not that the cables are a poor choice but the fact you are running them along the ground in a harsh environment, you need to look into other suitable means like cable protection channelling like they use on road works etc, we have this set up in the factories I work in, also voltages used should be considered IE 110v gear.

I understand that sometimes they cables will be subject to some wear and tear but if this is the case then more routine checks and replacement may be the only real answer but I struggle to see that there isn't any other solutions, we have in the past dug the floors up and put cable raceways in to allow power points at better suited positions minimising extension runs.

No chance, its the way it is backstage everywhere. And on location in TV, cables everywhere. Sometimes it's not so bad in the studio on longer running series but for one day get in, one day get out, it's chaotic. Safety stats however remain very high - make of that what you will.

Each cable/distro is checked/tested as it's laid out and connected at least.

 

[davesparks]

No chance, its the way it is backstage everywhere. And on location in TV, cables everywhere. Sometimes it's not so bad in the studio on longer running series but for one day get in, one day get out, it's chaotic. Safety stats however remain very high - make of that what you will.

Each cable/distro is checked/tested as it's laid out and connected at least.

Thats not the way it is backstage everywhere, all of the backstage environments I've worked in we've always run cables where they don't get walked all over or give them additional protection.

 

[Deuce]

Thats not the way it is backstage everywhere, all of the backstage environments I've worked in we've always run cables where they don't get walked all over or give them additional protection.

Where have you worked?

Yes backstage isn't too bad, but the cables still go in and out very quickly and certainly get tugged around quite a bit. On location is by for the worse, also movie sets pretty bad.

I literally just came off a job where there was a 10m vertical drop. Filming at the bottom, generator at the top. Thick bushes around the top of the drop, how to drop the 125a down? The solution, not surprisingly, was for them to 'gently throw it' over the bushes. And then from the distro below cables over rocks, through windows etc.

I've seen it all, some people do hold a very high standard - mostly it's the venue that demands the standards more than the guys in charge of the show/event, whatever. To be honest the electrical safety, as in testing is second to none. Literally every part of the power distribution is tested by the hire company and then tested as it's laid out. A lot of cables might see 100+ tests a year. It's just the breakneck speed and sheer number of people that makes for a less than ideal final layout quite often.

 

[Darkwood]

No chance, its the way it is backstage everywhere. And on location in TV, cables everywhere. Sometimes it's not so bad in the studio on longer running series but for one day get in, one day get out, it's chaotic. Safety stats however remain very high - make of that what you will.

Each cable/distro is checked/tested as it's laid out and connected at least.

I had industrial dirty factories in my head tbh, I cannot comment on your area but surely all the H&S and trip hazards etc would see cables run safely and out of the way where possible, safety always comes before deadlines athough it is often why accidents do happen when the priorities change position but if you are saying safety stats remain high then fair enough although it will only takes one major accident to see a clamp down on complacent attitudes due to time restraints, the question is though who takes the blame?

 

[gazdkw82]

I think this a real industry problem. I'm pretty new to the Industry and i already see SY installed alot. At my works (university) we use it for all kinds of applications, inverters, controls, commando socket outlets extensions..... Even the large compactor that gets picked up weekly is wired in SY.

I don't think it's obvious enough that it's non compliant. Even our electrical technicians didn't know!

Is there any other piece of electrical equipment that is used so widely and doesn't comply?

 

[Deuce]

I had industrial dirty factories in my head tbh, I cannot comment on your area but surely all the H&S and trip hazards etc would see cables run safely and out of the way where possible, safety always comes before deadlines athough it is often why accidents do happen when the priorities change position but if you are saying safety stats remain high then fair enough although it will only takes one major accident to see a clamp down on complacent attitudes due to time restraints, the question is though who takes the blame?

I think, in all honesty, safety remains high due to common sense. I don't mean H&S common sense, I mean common sense of the people working in the area to realise it's a none standard situation and that extra care is required. Of course in this industry people are used to working fast in the weirdest of places, so it becomes a frame of mind to keep your eyes open.

You would have to work in the industry to understand the way it works, and why it's all thrown together so quickly sometimes. You would be amazed at the sheer amount of kit that's up and running within hours sometimes, easily the equivalent distribution system of a small-medium sized factory.

I can say that on walkways cable ramps are used, but in reality people will be working all over the place.

It's a strange thought these days, but it is possible to be safe just by being aware - you don't actually have to remove a potential risk, just avoid it.