What is a Landlords Safety check?

[alanl]

Some Managing Agents have asked me to do a 'Landlords safety check' on a rented property.
I said I could do a PIR for them no problem, £20 per circuit - £100 for the house.
"It was only £50 last year"
Well, how long was he there?
Around 2 hours was the reply.
There is no way a PIR could be done in that time.
I've turned it down, as they either have the PIR, or I dont do it.

So what were they after?

Ta
Alan.

 

[ezzzekiel]

pretty much a very basic Pir for as cheap as possible

 

[Mark_Burgess]

You are right a PIR, it could be done for £50, visual only!!

And good on you for turning it down, I have done in the past also.

 

[tony mc]

They just want the report but don't want to pay.

Hats off to you I would say it a PIR or nothing and as you know they take alot of time even when faults are not found.

 

[PC Electrics]

Probably a Visual Inspection Report for 50 quid. Believe it or not the NIC actually have a VIR form!

Good on yer, mate. I tell them it's a proper PIR (80+% inspection) or nothing. I'm not putting my name on a worthless VIR/PIR just because they want to be a cheapskate over safety.

 

[tony mc]

I wonder where the VIR form comes from as I hav't seen one in 7671 or is this just another form your purchase from the NIC but are worthless really.

 

[Martin Bradley]

these types of places always get dollars up front, as if it falls bellow standards they dont want to pay. what i mean when you start saying it needs this and that doing.
then they say how much when can it be completed and dont want to pay for pir.

 

[telectrix]

think that's it exactly, more money for nic. i suupose a visual with a couple of random tests is better than nothing, but at the end of the day, it's my signature on the cert. and it's me that woulld stand in front of the fan catching the brown stuff, so (IMO) full PIR or let a cowboy do it.

 

[NMc]

I bet the £50 is for looking at the property and seeing that every thing is present - no missing accessories. A simple visual inspections

Good on you for sticking to your guns PIR take time if done right and if the landlord provides appliances then there is PAT to consider

People need educating into what they need and doing cheap options is waste of time and money. It needs to be understood more that periodics should be done.

 

[tony mc]

Just had a look at the ESC website re VIR and this is what they say about them.

Visual condition reports​

A visual condition report will include the results of the inspection of
the electrical installation.
A visual condition report does not include testing, so the inspection
is not likely to find hidden damage to equipment (for example,
damage to cables and joints).
Usually, a visual inspection report is only suitable if the installation
has been tested in the last couple of years, and the results were
reported (on an electrical installation certificate or a periodic​

inspection report) as being satisfactory (good enough).

 

[NMc]

Basically what I said £50 - a simple visual inspection but do these management companies know the difference

 

[Dayo]

surely it depends on the size of the property, £25 an hour = 2 hours less a bit for travelling. a lot can be checked in 2 hours, if last pir cert is available and furthest readings are simular, bonds are in tact etc. if this company are going to give you lots of work its the spratt to catch the mackeral. if £50 = 25% of accessories tested, so be it, just put it down on your cert.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I don't know how they can get away with just a visual inspection when they will also need a CP 12 for the gas side of things.You can't do a CP 12 just by looking - it has to be a full test for gas tightness, adequate ventilation & a flue inspection as well as ensuring that all the appliances (boiler, fire, cooker etc.) are in safe working order.

Why should it be different for the electrics?

 

[NMc]

More dangerous occurances happen with gas

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Only if they're ignited by a dodgy cable joint thats never been checked for LOL

I know what you Mean, but of all the insurance rewires I have been to, not one was a gas explosion. Many were from a fire. Electrical fire....

 

[Octopus]

Surely you could only contemplate doing a "Landlords Safety Check" if you had the last PIR to refer to!!

 

[alanl]

Thanks for the replies, I'm a bit more enlightened!
I cannot see how a visual exam tells you anything.Earth bond in place, sockets in good condition etc, but ti says nothing at all about the safety of the installation, so i think I'll be steering well clear of a 'VIR'.
Thanks
Alan.

 

[Marvo]

It kinda makes sense to me. If the period between PIR inspections is 5 years then the Visual inspection would be an interim measure if the last PIR was available for reference and if the last PIR was within 2 years. Assuming there's been no significant work or renovations on the property then a 2 hour visual inspection would suffice in my opinion.

The biggest problem with this type of interim inspection is it's going to be targetted for abuse as a cheap and cheerful PIR substitute by landlords who are fiscally shrewd and budget conscious (tight fisted). As long as there's hard and fast rules to stop this abuse then it should be okay.

 

[Geordie Spark]

More dangerous occurances happen with gas

I know!!

And it's more to do with ventilation & flue issues than gas leaks, but I still think it's wrong that the electrical inspection can just be a visual only. That did not pick up the earth fault that gaused my girlfriend's eldest daughter getting a shock of the kitchen tap in the house she was renting!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Thanks for the replies, I'm a bit more enlightened!
I cannot see how a visual exam tells you anything.Earth bond in place, sockets in good condition etc, but ti says nothing at all about the safety of the installation, so i think I'll be steering well clear of a 'VIR'.
Thanks
Alan.

I agree.

 

[poheZ]

The root of the problem is that there is no set format to a pir. This means that a pir can be whatever you say it is on the report sheet.

If the estate agent wants a pir for £50 then why not give it to them? They pay for what they get? If you undertake what you can and state no test on the rest whats the problem? No one is asking you to make it up

 

[DurhamSparky]

to be truth full i carry out VIR on a lot of propertys that i initially carried out a full PIR on!! if its good it gets a 10 year life span and then every time a new tennant moves in or a year passes (what comes sooner) i do a visual inspection to ensure no broken sockets . lights and no signs of damage from tennant!
it covers the landlords --- if they ever said oh that socket was missing when i moved in and i got a shock etc!

then hopefully come the 10 year mark another full PIR will be undertaken

 

[Paul.M]

to be truth full i carry out VIR on a lot of propertys that i initially carried out a full PIR on!! if its good it gets a 10 year life span and then every time a new tennant moves in or a year passes (what comes sooner) i do a visual inspection to ensure no broken sockets . lights and no signs of damage from tennant!
it covers the landlords --- if they ever said oh that socket was missing when i moved in and i got a shock etc!

then hopefully come the 10 year mark another full PIR will be undertaken

I think a VIR is a good idea for an annual landlord safety check and as Durham says it covers the landlords back. It should be better constructed and include a Ze, Zs on the two largest circuits and a rcd ramp test. I think it should take about two hours to complete including the visual and its better than nothing and could also lead to more work. Min £50 per VIR only if the estate agents can provide the EIC/pir and book at least ten properties within 6 months, I think that would work.

 

[Phil]

i have done visuals in the past and all the findings are well documented. i also make it very clear on the report that in no way does this report give any details regarding the condition of the cables etc. if they want a visual report give them one and make it clear what you have done. also a couple i have done them for needed or wanted after a change of tenant which was a couple of months after the pir so it would not have been in the interests of the installation to start pulling it apart again