Who Are You?

[Guest77]

I think he's trying to say that because youre not officially registered as an engineer, you can't possibly be one which personally I don't agree with.

If you look up the definition of an engineer, the general definition is something along the lines of someone who designs, builds and maintains. No where does it say that an engineer can only be an engineer by being registered to some sort of trade body.

You can dress it up as you like, in the trade people who matter know what the definition of an engineer is, and it is certainely a merited position most of us will not achieve.

 

[shanky887614]

So is Incorporated Engineer (IEng)...

i know because my stepdad is a charted engineer, he got sponserd by company to get his

 

[Guest77]

I worked for a company around 20 years ago I suppose now who had a maintenance contract with a large shopping centre, one day I was in the office awaiting new instructions when the phone went and I heard the boss say "I will send an Engineer around now to sort it out" He asked me who is only a site technician to go there and wait for it= replace a lamp over a stair case lol. The word engineer is used to often for my liking and is an insult to hard working engineers who have actually done the real training to have and hold the title.

 

[Engineer54]

charted enginer is a protected title but normal enginer isnt


the professional titles of Engineering Technician (EngTech), Incorporated Engineer IEng), Chartered Engineer (CEng) and ICT Technician (ICTTech) may only be used by those who have been granted these titles through registration with the Engineering Council.

www.engc.org.uk/statusofengineers.aspx

It's actually the Engineering Council that is officiating the title of ''Engineer'' at the end of the day.

 

[Harni]

You can dress it up as you like, in the trade people who matter know what the definition of an engineer is, and it is certainely a merited position most of us will not achieve.

I'm not trying to dress it up at all. To be honest, I couldn't care if I'm referred to as a engineer or not. Like I said in my original post, I chose engineer from the list on the poll because that's the closest to what I do.

 

[andyelectric]

How can i answer that, if you won't answer the question i asked above??

I think I have already stated my position reasonably clearly in that lack of registration does not preclude you being an Engineer. Certainly in the Armed Forces there are many who could register as CEng or IEng but choose not to do so as it does not have any bearing on their role in the forces and would simply amount to a yearly fee for nothing. With my quals and experience I could have registered as IEng but chose not to do so.

Do you seriously expect Forces personnel to register for a membership that would do nothing for them?

Edit.. Having seen your answer to my question of 'are you a chartered engineer?' on another part of the forum it would appear that you are as I originally thought 'willy wanging' your registered status.

 

[shanky887614]

I think I have already stated my position reasonably clearly in that lack of registration does not preclude you being an Engineer. Certainly in the Armed Forces there are many who could register as CEng or IEng but choose not to do so as it does not have any bearing on their role in the forces and would simply amount to a yearly fee for nothing. With my quals and experience I could have registered as IEng but chose not to do so.

Do you seriously expect Forces personnel to register for a membership that would do nothing for them?

no i dont think he is saying that, what he will mean is someone that meets the requirements if they signed up with them to get it.

 

[jimmymac]

The way I see it, your either a professionally registered Engineer or your not, simple!

 

[Slowhand]

In the late 90's I did a lot of work for a " suit ", very posh with a plum in his mouth, always immaculately dressed. He was well respected as a successful businessman and for his extensive knowledge on most things to do with building and steelwork etc etc.
I assumed he was some sort of quantity surveyor or similar.
His card had his name on it with Bais 1974 hons. next to it.
One night after a couple of drinks I asked him what it stood for, some kind of honours degree I thought.
He looked at me and smiled, swore me to secrecy and told me.
Bais 1974 hons = Been at it since 1974 honestly!
He also told me l was the first person ever to ask.

 

[andyelectric]

The way I see it, your either a professionally registered Engineer or your not, simple!

That as a statement is inherently correct.

However, the real question we are trying to answer is should those qualified and experienced who could register but do not be calling themselves Engineers. This is of particular relevance to the Armed Forces where there is no benefit to registering, only a financial downside.

To put it another way, should a time served qualified electrician be calling himself an electrician if he is not registered with some body or other be it JIB or a CPS.

 

[ipf]

No 'approved' or 'technician' listed, I see. They used to be the terms used for those completing the 'full set' of A, B and C certs. How things change, eh!

A - Electrician
B - Approved electrician
C - Technician

 

[Knobhead]

I was the type of manager who in closed company might have occasionally have used that type of language. But it would be reserved for those that deserved it. I certainly wouldn't have generalised and tarnished everyone with the same brush in public like you do.

You are correct that I don't know you. But I do know your internet persona. And that I do not like.

I’m the same in real life. And to add I can’t say I’m over enamoured with you.

I spent too much time as production manager trying to put right the discord caused by two ex RAF warrant offices who though they knew how to run a production shift.
The company had a misguided policy of taking on ex RAF offices, I’m happy to say I broke that mould. Coming from the bulk chemical industry I was used to the pressures of a high production environment, more than could be said for my opposite numbers.
The big difference was my team were on my side, they knew I’d push them to get that bonus in their pocket.

Just to rub it in. I worked as a professional photographer doing many military functions. I can out shout a Coldstream RSM. Shouting works in some environments.

You mentioned letters after your name, there’s more letters after my name than my name is long.

 

[andyelectric]

I’m the same in real life. And to add I can’t say I’m over enamoured with you.

I spent too much time as production manager trying to put right the discord caused by two ex RAF warrant offices who though they knew how to run a production shift.
The company had a misguided policy of taking on ex RAF offices, I’m happy to say I broke that mould. Coming from the bulk chemical industry I was used to the pressures of a high production environment, more than could be said for my opposite numbers.
The big difference was my team were on my side, they knew I’d push them to get that bonus in their pocket.

Just to rub it in. I worked as a professional photographer doing many military functions. I can out shout a Coldstream RSM. Shouting works in some environments.

You mentioned letters after your name, there’s more letters after my name than my name is long.

Don't know what you are trying to 'rub in'. I have rarely found the need to shout loud except when in the vicinity of machinery, or gunfire.
I've never mentioned letters after my name. The reason is I have none.

And I doubt your team would follow you if as you state if you were constantly calling them "minions" or "muppets" to their faces. I expect that in real life such words were rarely used face to face.

 

[Harni]

Don't know what you are trying to 'rub in'. I have rarely found the need to shout loud except when in the vicinity of machinery, or gunfire.
I've never mentioned letters after my name. The reason is I have none.

And I doubt your team would follow you if as you state if you were constantly calling them "minions" or "muppets" to their faces. I expect that in real life such words were rarely used face to face.

I had a manager like that once. He ended up with a broken nose and 2 black eyes and that was before i got to get near him!

 

[shanky887614]

I had a manager like that once. He ended up with a broken nose and 2 black eyes and that was before i got to get near him!

my supervisor was like that, i told him to **** off and do it himself, the mardy basted needed knocking down a peg

he is golden to me now, if he shouts ill shout back and make life hard for him (he doesn't pay the wages and isn't my boss so)

 

[Harni]

Yeah funnily enough this guy is now a good friend of mine. I think his girlfriend (who also worked there) basically told him to stop being a complete ----- to everyone! Its no way to manage people. Its just bullying and no one should stand for it.

 

[7029 dave]

No 'approved' or 'technician' listed, I see. They used to be the terms used for those completing the 'full set' of A, B and C certs. How things change, eh!

A - Electrician
B - Approved electrician
C - Technician

I have B, could not be arsed to do the C, just wanted to show them what I could do practically. Not an boffin . lol

 

[Engineer54]

I think I have already stated my position reasonably clearly in that lack of registration does not preclude you being an Engineer. Certainly in the Armed Forces there are many who could register as CEng or IEng but choose not to do so as it does not have any bearing on their role in the forces and would simply amount to a yearly fee for nothing. With my quals and experience I could have registered as IEng but chose not to do so.

Do you seriously expect Forces personnel to register for a membership that would do nothing for them?

Edit.. Having seen your answer to my question of 'are you a chartered engineer?' on another part of the forum it would appear that you are as I originally thought 'willy wanging' your registered status.

Haha!! i told you i don't need to willy wangle anything, and i certainly don't need to lie about my professional credentials or status. You just don't get to run the type of projects i work on without professional status, end of.

It's generally people like yourself that come out with all the crap about being and calling themselves an Engineer, but choose not register themselves as such, because of this that and the other. I've heard the same bull s**t lines and stories for bloody years....

 

[Knobhead]

Don't know what you are trying to 'rub in'. I have rarely found the need to shout loud except when in the vicinity of machinery, or gunfire.
I've never mentioned letters after my name. The reason is I have none.

And I doubt your team would follow you if as you state if you were constantly calling them "minions" or "muppets" to their faces. I expect that in real life such words were rarely used face to face.

You overlooked this bit:

The big difference was my team were on my side, they knew I’d push them hard to get that bonus in their pocket.

It's where management skills come in to play. Knowing how to get the best from people with the least amount of fuss.

You’re just like my shift counterparts were. Fixed in your military mindset. If the qualifications aren’t on offer in the NAFFI at cut price I’m going to shout about it. The forces have fixed you up with the cut price short cut ticket to nowhere.

As for letters after your name you were haranguing E54 over engineer status saying you decided against it on cost, more fool you. You could have gone in to a good job and wrecked that with military efficiency instead of wrecking unsuspecting people’s homes with military ineptitude.

Thank god I missed out on national service, I too could have had an attitude like yours.

 

[jimmymac]

That as a statement is inherently correct.

However, the real question we are trying to answer is should those qualified and experienced who could register but do not be calling themselves Engineers. This is of particular relevance to the Armed Forces where there is no benefit to registering, only a financial downside.

To put it another way, should a time served qualified electrician be calling himself an electrician if he is not registered with some body or other be it JIB or a CPS.

Thanks! Glad you agree! So your not an engineer then?

I don't think it's fair to compare the two professions in that way, it's clearly harder to become an Engineer than an Electrician but in both cases you would need to meet the criteria to register as such. In the case of electrician you must possess the relevant skills and experience, in the case of Engineer you must have achieved an academic level (such as an Engineering degree) or achieved a lower academic level (HND) and have shed loads of experience, that's how I see it

 

[andyelectric]

You overlooked this bit:



It's where management skills come in to play. Knowing how to get the best from people with the least amount of fuss.

You’re just like my shift counterparts were. Fixed in your military mindset. If the qualifications aren’t on offer in the NAFFI at cut price I’m going to shout about it. The forces have fixed you up with the cut price short cut ticket to nowhere.

As for letters after your name you were haranguing E54 over engineer status saying you decided against it on cost, more fool you. You could have gone in to a good job and wrecked that with military efficiency instead of wrecking unsuspecting people’s homes with military ineptitude.

Thank god I missed out on national service, I too could have had an attitude like yours.

Well, in your last couple of posts you've moved on to ranting I feel. Let's get back on track.

In two posts you called your workers first "minions" and then "muppets". I called into question that you would dare to talk to your workers like that face to face. Your assertion that you would shows you to be a porky pie teller as a boss like that would soon get put in his place.

Of course, their is the slight chance you might be of such a troll size no worker would stand up to you, but it's far more likely you are just a sad internet troll.

 

[andyelectric]

Thanks! Glad you agree! So your not an engineer then?

I don't think it's fair to compare the two professions in that way, it's clearly harder to become an Engineer than an Electrician but in both cases you would need to meet the criteria to register as such. In the case of electrician you must possess the relevant skills and experience, in the case of Engineer you must have achieved an academic level (such as an Engineering degree) or achieved a lower academic level (HND) and have shed loads of experience, that's how I see it

I agree I am not a registered Engineer, I have always made that clear. If you infer that only registered engineers should be able to call themselves an Engineer then that is subject to opinion and ours obviously differ. I don't think there is much point discussing this issue further as there will never be agreement.

 

[Engineer54]

Originally Posted by andyelectric
That as a statement is inherently correct.

However, the real question we are trying to answer is should those qualified and experienced who could register but do not be calling themselves Engineers. This is of particular relevance to the Armed Forces where there is no benefit to registering, only a financial downside.

To put it another way, should a time served qualified electrician be calling himself an electrician if he is not registered with some body or other be it JIB or a CPS
​

That depends if you are employed in the industrial sector, especially within an in-house maintenance team the JIB/SJIB cards would be pretty pointless cards to carry. If however you are a qualified electrician working on most if not all of the bigger projects and the like, you wouldn't be able to get on the site let alone work as an electrician without the appropriate registration cards.

I think you'll find that most of the fully qualified contracting electricians hold such JIB cards, or have at least held them at some point in time. Many would have completed all their training with a JIB registered contractor/company....

As for the rest, any electrician that has completed a level 3 foundation technical course and has the relevant skills and experience can quite legitimately call themselves 'an ''Electrician''

I also think you are also mistaken with armed services Engineers. There are many Registered Professional Engineers within the Royal Engineers and are encouraged to become registered!! I know that for a fact!!​

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As far as I'm aware, anyone can call themselves an electrician, though to my mind to be an electrician, they should be conducting electrical work for remuneration.

 

[andyelectric]

That depends if you are employed in the industrial sector, especially within an in-house maintenance team the JIB/SJIB cards would be pretty pointless cards to carry. If however you are a qualified electrician working on most if not all of the bigger projects and the like, you wouldn't be able to get on the site let alone work as an electrician without the appropriate registration cards.

I think you'll find that most of the fully qualified contracting electricians hold such JIB cards, or have at least held them at some point in time. Many would have completed all their training with a JIB registered contractor/company....

As for the rest, any electrician that has completed a level 3 foundation technical course and has the relevant skills and experience can quite legitimately call themselves 'an ''Electrician''

I also think you are also mistaken with armed services Engineers. There are many Registered Professional Engineers within the Royal Engineers and are encouraged to become registered!! I know that for a fact!![/INDENT]

I would say your answer that any electrician who has relevant quals/experience can call themself an electrician would also apply to Engineers. This is a personal opinion and it is clear thay some would say only registered engineers should call themselves such.

It may well be that my experience in the RN does not hold broadly across the whole armed forces and I have been culpable of a generalisation re registration. Shows that generalising can be wrong I suppose.

The RN is slightly strange in that those who could register as Chartered Engineer would normally be higher level managers with absolutely no hands on experience.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Ditto with the RAF.

 

[jimmymac]

I agree I am not a registered Engineer, I have always made that clear. If you infer that only registered engineers should be able to call themselves an Engineer then that is subject to opinion and ours obviously differ. I don't think there is much point discussing this issue further as there will never be agreement.

Fair enough, just putting my view across, no harm intended.

P.S, I'm right, your wrong!

 

[trev]

In order that the engineer/not an engineer debate could be settled once and for all beyond all reasonable doubt I have tirelessly searched the interwebs for more than 5 minutes. This is the result of my extensive research and imo there can be no doubt.
You are either an engineer or you are not.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=lrq1yfHWkvzPuBXgq5UqXg&bvm=bv.82001339,d.ZGU

 

[HandySparks]

In compensation for starting this thread, I'll follow trev's fine example and inject some levity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8vHhgh6oM0

Apologies if you've seen it before.

 

[andyelectric]

In order that the engineer/not an engineer debate could be settled once and for all beyond all reasonable doubt I have tirelessly searched the interwebs for more than 5 minutes. This is the result of my extensive research and imo there can be no doubt.
You are either an engineer or you are not.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=lrq1yfHWkvzPuBXgq5UqXg&bvm=bv.82001339,d.ZGU

I think we'll take that as settled then trev thanks to your diligent research efforts.

 

[trev]

Your gratitude is noted and appreciated Andy

 

[jimmymac]

In order that the engineer/not an engineer debate could be settled once and for all beyond all reasonable doubt I have tirelessly searched the interwebs for more than 5 minutes. This is the result of my extensive research and imo there can be no doubt.
You are either an engineer or you are not.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=lrq1yfHWkvzPuBXgq5UqXg&bvm=bv.82001339,d.ZGU

A pessimist says the glass is half empty,
An optimist says the glass is half full,
An Engineer says the glass is twice the size it should be.

 

[Slowhand]

A pessimist says the glass is half empty,
An optimist says the glass is half full,
An Engineer says the glass is twice the size it should be.

An electrician says he's not bothered cos its your round next ;-)

 

[shanky887614]

A pessimist says the glass is half empty,
An optimist says the glass is half full,
An Engineer says the glass is twice the size it should be.

a realist says, is that pi$$?

 

[Guest77]

And a chimp says bollox regardless

 

[Knobhead]

Still on the wagon Mike?

 

[Guest77]

yeah and no fella, once a week now I have 4 or 5 ciders, that is about it at the moment.

 

[telectrix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qii499Pfwc0

 

[rustynails]

I've never completed an apprenticeship but wish I had, just for that little piece of paper I could shove down the throats of some people who do not view people taking short courses as electricians. These people are just a**holes because heaven forbid I might turn up and do a better job for less as I work faster and are more driven as a younger, newer electrician. I appreciate that the drive wears off but I wouldn't turn my nose up at some one unless after meeting them it was clear that they didn't have a brain. I took a route from the DIY/builder option did the 17th, 2382, registered with elecsa, went and got some more experience, went back and completed 2394/2395/2377/2399, first time. So It annoys me when I see more experienced sparkies and the sparkies lemmings, who don't take pride in the work they have been awarded, often coming in like a bull in a china shop and leaving like a bull with a red hot poker shoved up it's ---, all for the thrill of going down the pub on Friday to brag about the 20k job he's just nailed out in 3 days. You need to be quick but safe.

 

[Knobhead]

And those of us that have completed a full and proper apprenticeship wish the Electrical Trainee’s weren’t in the game.

I have my indentures signed and sealed and the experience to match.

You wonder why I don’t like someone calling themselves an “electrician” five weeks after they were stacking shelves in Tesco?

 

[Deleted account]

My experience is very similar to yours rusty nails. I did all the courses. It took over 3 years. C&G L2 &L3 17th part p periodic etc...then did 2 years doing minor works and a few notifiable jobs for which I paid building control £160 a piece to sign off. I then applied to join NICEIC, I had my inspection everything went well and I got registered. I have been registered for over 2 years now. I worked bl**dy hard to get to this stage and am doing good. I Consider myself just as good a domestic installer as anyone who has gone thru the apprentice route, if not better as you need to learn very quick with little or no backup.
Believe me I would have rather have gone thru the apprentice route as it would have been much cheaper and easier, but all these electricians who moan about the so called easy quick route don't seem willing to take on apprentices any more.

How else are we to get qualified?

how are we going to deal with the massive shortage of electricians at the moment?

i totally agree apprentices are the best option. Maybe they should be the only option. But there are non or not enough.

 

[Darkwood]

I've never completed an apprenticeship but wish I had, just for that little piece of paper I could shove down the throats of some people who do not view people taking short courses as electricians. These people are just a**holes because heaven forbid I might turn up and do a better job for less as I work faster and are more driven as a younger, newer electrician. I appreciate that the drive wears off but I wouldn't turn my nose up at some one unless after meeting them it was clear that they didn't have a brain. I took a route from the DIY/builder option did the 17th, 2382, registered with elecsa, went and got some more experience, went back and completed 2394/2395/2377/2399, first time. So It annoys me when I see more experienced sparkies and the sparkies lemmings, who don't take pride in the work they have been awarded, often coming in like a bull in a china shop and leaving like a bull with a red hot poker shoved up it's ---, all for the thrill of going down the pub on Friday to brag about the 20k job he's just nailed out in 3 days. You need to be quick but safe.

Whether it be old pro's new Electrical Trainee or the middle ground, your always going to find those that do a rough job and really don't know their --- from their elbow but you have to understand the general consensus here in that a Electrical Trainee cannot be what used to be a well educated, respected and appreciated title of been an Electrican. The required knowledge and experience that was needed long before the Electrical Trainee ever existed was high and came with a low pass rate.... Nowadays you can be maths iliterate have no real knowledge of physics and still pass these courses, this in itself is evidence of how much its dumbed down... so

Have you been taught about motors and there controls
Have you passed a course section on MICC and how to terminate it
Have you done a course section on fault finding, recognising symptoms and dangers associated with them
Have you been taught how to design a full factory lighting install using various systems, contactors, inductive peak inrush calcs of multiple fittings etc
Have you been educated in how to interpret and apply to site standard building plans
Have you been fully prep'd on the building regs

The list goes on but before I carry on I make a point that most of the above list has now been dropped from the full term college courses and has to be taken as advanced courses where available, so for someone to tell me that the highly respected title of Electrician I earned over 4 years of block release has not only been dumbed down on the full course but has and even more shockingly been chopped down for a Electrical Trainee course then yes It disgruntles me.. It is not a personal attack on you but your just a victim of the system, anyone doing a Electrical Trainee course and hitting the domestic sector to me is nothing more than a domestic installer... just enough info to wire a house and no more.

You cannot cram 3 - 4 yrs into 5 weeks without stripping it down a lot, one of my block release was typically 4-5 weeks long 5 or 6 times a year for 4 years ... that makes my training times actually in college 20x longer than a Electrical Trainee so I ask you to put yourself in my shoes and others on here like Tony who see the full courses dumbed down and these magic Electrical Trainee instant spark course produce 'Electricians' who believe they are somehow equivalent in education and knowledge and I say that negating our experience so as not to use it as an advantage.

If we were Chef's here its like we learned how to dish up a michelin class meal and now we watch the new generation with the abilities to work only in a school canteen yet still think they acheived the same in college as we did because the title is the same.... sadly this is not the case.

I personally don't turn my nose up at any individual whatever course they did but if they are Electrical Trainee they have to realise they are nothing like educated to the same level as the full term set, these courses were designed for people with existing electrical knowledge and background as a means just to get the paperwork and polish off what they already know unfortunately the scam providers abused it with false advertising and aiming at the wrong sector of people wirh no knowledge or experience, so I take offense when anyone choosing this route somehow puts themselves on the same par as the full coursed people, if you respect your education route has only given you limited Electrical knowledge then I have no issue but it a big bug bear when you find Electrical Trainee and even full term qualified not understanding basic theory and reflecting it in there question ... we would have never passed not knowing some of the questions posted on here yet its all becoming to familiar and the norm sadly.

 

[Darkwood]

My experience is very similar to yours rusty nails. I did all the courses. It took over 3 years. C&G L2 &L3 17th part p periodic etc...then did 2 years doing minor works and a few notifiable jobs for which I paid building control £160 a piece to sign off. I then applied to join NICEIC, I had my inspection everything went well and I got registered. I have been registered for over 2 years now. I worked bl**dy hard to get to this stage and am doing good. I Consider myself just as good a domestic installer as anyone who has gone thru the apprentice route, if not better as you need to learn very quick with little or no backup.
Believe me I would have rather have gone thru the apprentice route as it would have been much cheaper and easier, but all these electricians who moan about the so called easy quick route don't seem willing to take on apprentices any more.

How else are we to get qualified?

how are we going to deal with the massive shortage of electricians at the moment?

i totally agree apprentices are the best option. Maybe they should be the only option. But there are non or not enough.

Excuse me! What shortage, the domestic market is now saturated because of these courses and wages driven down to the lowest in the building trade from what was once the highest, when wages start shooting up then you will know there's a shortage as demand pushing them up, the only sector getting a black hole is the Electrical Engineering and true Industrial sparky because the old are retiring and we have a 20yr gap in trained Engineers creating a massive shortfall.

 

[Deleted account]

Excuse me! What shortage, the domestic market is now saturated because of these courses and wages driven down to the lowest in the building trade from what was once the highest, when wages start shooting up then you will know there's a shortage as demand pushing them up, the only sector getting a black hole is the Electrical Engineering and true Industrial sparky because the old are retiring and we have a 20yr gap in trained Engineers creating a massive shortfall.

If if there is no shortage why is there so much work in the domestic market? Why do I constanly get comments from customers thanking me for just answering the phone or replying or even turning up for a quote.? I feel I am the only person out there responding to customers sometimes. Maybe it's because I am willing to do the small jobs as well as the larger that I get so much work. I don't know. I know it's not that I am cheap. I know my worth and charge accordingly.

maybe it's different where you are.

 

[Darkwood]

If if there is no shortage why is there so much work in the domestic market? Why do I constanly get comments from customers thanking me for just answering the phone or replying or even turning up for a quote.? I feel I am the only person out there responding to customers sometimes. Maybe it's because I am willing to do the small jobs as well as the larger that I get so much work. I don't know. I know it's not that I am cheap. I know my worth and charge accordingly.

maybe it's different where you are.

If thats the case then you are blessed with having your own niche area of a large customer base with little competition but the general theme is the domestic is saturated as I said the going rate would be substantially higher otherwise which it isn't.

 

[TheHUNTED]

If if there is no shortage why is there so much work in the domestic market? Why do I constanly get comments from customers thanking me for just answering the phone or replying or even turning up for a quote.? I feel I am the only person out there responding to customers sometimes. Maybe it's because I am willing to do the small jobs as well as the larger that I get so much work. I don't know. I know it's not that I am cheap. I know my worth and charge accordingly.

maybe it's different where you are.

There is a shortage of electricians in the domestic sector, but not in short course domestic installers. As DW says, its littered with them so you are trying to compete with their stupidly low prices.

Apprenticeships are great by the way. You dunno what you're missing!

 

[Engineer54]

how are we going to deal with the massive shortage of electricians at the moment?

Massive shortage of electricians in the domestic sector, you've got to be having a laugh!! lol!! The only people that have ever been throwing that little gem around is the 17 day/Electrical Trainee training centres!! They also throw in the part P crap and the pat testing sham of a cert. So i'm now wondering!!!

 

[Essex_]

If thats the case then you are blessed with having your own niche area of a large customer base with little competition but the general theme is the domestic is saturated as I said the going rate would be substantially higher otherwise which it isn't.

Or the home owners would just 'live with' problems or not get that extension they were always talking about.

 

[Deleted account]

I think we have gone off topic here a bit, but before this thread is put back to "who are you?" I'd like to add a couple of points.

Even though I didn't come thru the apprentice route I strongly agree that it is the best route and a route I would have preferred. Your right TheHunted I don't know what I missed, but would have liked to.

It has been said that the market is flooded with electrical installers which is driving the price down and if there was a shortage the prices would rocket. I am thinking maybe that's exactly what some electricians want. Hence the shortage of apprentices? So Im now wondering!!!

I charge £45 for the first hour and £25 per hour thereafter or £200 day rate plus materials at cost plus 10-25% and I am happy with that and I get enough work. How much more do I need? Yes I would love a pay rise, but that would not happen if prices increased.

If I charge more (you are right Essex) the customers would just live with the problems and not get electrical work done or worse do it themselves ( nearly always the cheapest option) if capable or not.

 

[jonny705]

Orginal post by
spinlondon

'When I left the RAF, I attempted to join the JIB, as I believed it was the correct course of action for the work I intended to do.
Unfortunately, they informed me that my qualifications, apprenticeship and experience were not acceptable.
They told me that I would have to first obtain civilian qualifications.
During my 2 year course for the 2360, I discovered that there was no necessecity for me to join the JIB, however I continued and completed the course, as I had paid up front.
I subsequently some years later found that I required the JIB/ECS card to be able to work on the majority of building sites. So taking the course was in fact some use.
However even today the JIB card is not necessary for domestic work, and is not even accepted for conducting EICRs by LABCs and many Insurance companies. '
​

Just skimming through this and read your post regarding JIB.

When I done my 2360 at Cov tech years ago, there was 2 classes running in tandem of around 30 to each Tutor.

There was the JIB apprentices, and us ragamuffins.

And I remember them as they all had matching toolboxes full of tools safety boots etc, and we would all queue up in the corridors, and most of the time they didn't even acknowledge us , as we weren't I guess on recognised apprentice schemes.

Fast forward our exams and about 5 from our class failed and the rest passed , and the JIB 5 passed and the rest failed.

And although I am ashamed a little of it now , I was was very young then and felt extremely smug