RCBO Replacement under 18th Edition

[Baga Bones]

Hi,
Complete laymen to the electrical world so need some advice.
We had a complete rewire done in 2016 and as part of this we had an RCBO unit put in. Today we have had an issue where there has been a loose connection and the board needs replacing. This is being done under our house cover but the electrician has advised we won't be having the same sort of board as the 18th edition rules have improved the requirement and therefore we will be having something better that includes mcbs. I don't have a clue about any of this so wanted some advice as to what is correct and what I should be pushing for. I've included a couple of pics of the board if thats any help.
Thanks.
View attachment 44534

 

[Pete999]

Nothing to stop you having the same CU configuration as before as far as I know. looks like the contractor is pulling a fast one and has a spare Amendment 3 CU hanging around in his stores, don't let him fob you off. You have RCBOs now far better than two RCDs and MCBs in my opinion. Where in the west Midlands are you based?

 

[Octopus]

TELL your house cover insurers that you will ONLY accept a RCBO board replacement .............. anything else is saving money for the contractor and leaving your house in a "worse" position.

As for the 18th edition - ask this contractor which regulation number he's referring to as this is a new change on me.

Hope this helps

 

[Pete999]

TELL your house cover insurers that you will ONLY accept a RCBO board replacement .............. anything else is saving money for the contractor and leaving your house in a "worse" position.

As for the 18th edition - ask this contractor which regulation number he's referring to as this is a new change on me.

Hope this helps

Agree with Murdoch.

 

[telectrix]

agree with pete. demand a similar configuration with each circuit protected by it's own RCBO. like for like is what insurers usually stipulate. the 18th Edition comes into force january 1st 2019, so the sparky seems to be trying it onto make a bigger profit.

 

[telectrix]

bugger. i find myself agreeing with both murdoch and pete in the same thread. i need beer. .

 

[Midwest]

Perhaps he's going to fit Arc Fault Detection Devices as well

PS, see how the A3 CU contain the fire

 

[telectrix]

and SPDs?

he'll need a bigger board.

 

[Pete999]

and SPDs?

he'll need a bigger board.

Wonder if the "Electrician" knows what an SPDD is Tel deffo trying it on, he has an AMEND 3 CU stashed in his stores and wants to use it up soonest, like you say the OP needs to insist on a like for like replacement, OP please don't let this contractor stitch you up, speak to your insurance company.

 

[Octopus]

All this photo confirms is my long held belief that wrapping plastic carp in metal doesn't really help.

AMD3 should have called for improved standards of parts being made for fuseboards:

Like metal components
2 screws for the incoming tails .

But no ............ lets focus on unnecessary AFFD's and such like (which will increase turnover and profits for suppliers) - rather than addressing the real problems (which would add costs to suppliers)

BEAMA - you are CARP

 

[Strima]

As above, like for like. Sounds like he's trying to fob you off with a split load board which, although is in the spirit of current regulations, isn't fully compliant with them for division of circuits.

TBH if the RCBOs are in good condition then I would be tempted to just get another bare unit from Screwfix and swap the plastic bits over.

 

[Midwest]

Hi,
Complete laymen to the electrical world so need some advice.
We had a complete rewire done in 2016 and as part of this we had an RCBO unit put in. Today we have had an issue where there has been a loose connection and the board needs replacing. This is being done under our house cover but the electrician has advised we won't be having the same sort of board as the 18th edition rules have improved the requirement and therefore we will be having something better that includes mcbs. I don't have a clue about any of this so wanted some advice as to what is correct and what I should be pushing for. I've included a couple of pics of the board if thats any help.
Thanks.

I keep reading your post and I think I'm thinking what the others are thinking, but I would like to be sure.

Can you explain with a bit more detail, what sort of replacement your electrician is proposing?

Has the electrician been contracted by the insurance company or by yourself? Plus it appears you have posted two pics, but I can only see one?

 

[suffolkspark]

Id just be buying a bare board and swapping the neutral bars over and plastic support? 2hours work absolute maximum, a board replacement is not required at all.

 

[Michael Sands]

All of the above

 

[telectrix]

Id just be buying a bare board and swapping the neutral bars over and plastic support? 2hours work absolute maximum, a board replacement is not required at all.

but you don't know if any damage has been done to 1 or more of those RCBOs due to the fault. I know i'd be inclined not to trust them.

 

[suffolkspark]

phisically check each one and test each properly though? Board change just seems ott when parts for this board are readily available

 

[buzzlightyear]

Two years old ,me i would be ring up the oringnal spark and tell him to fix it .and get your a&& round here pronto.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - I agree with previous posts and believe you are entitled to a like for like replacement utilising rcbo, not mcbs and RCDs. This will add a couple of hundred to the material costs compared with the mcb/RCD hardware.

 

[Midwest]

I think we've been 'trolled'. OP was having a butchers at this thread at 3.29pm today, but obviously had nothing to add to his OP.

 

[Toneyz]

Id just be buying a bare board and swapping the neutral bars over and plastic support? 2hours work absolute maximum, a board replacement is not required at all.

You most likely be able to get them separately.

 

[Pete999]

phisically check each one and test each properly though? Board change just seems ott when parts for this board are readily available

By the time you have ponced about testing, checking, modifying etc, would it not better all round to go or a replacement? I thinks so that is the reason I gave a disagree.

 

[westward10]

It has always been a bone of contention that dual rcd boards do not comply with current Regulations whereby a fault on one circuit will affect other circuits, obviously avoided with the use of rcbos. Maybe the OPs electrician has taken note of Reg 531.3.5.2 in the 18th Ed which seems to permit the use of a dual rcd board unless there are restrictions on circuit selectively. I think Doc will like this

 

[Pete999]

You most likely be able to get them separately.

I gave you an optimistic, because it may NOT be able to get spares separately, time and effort would be better used in fitting the new CU, IMO anyway.

 

[GBDamo]

Spend less time making all the coloured wires line up nicely and tighten your fecking terminals properly.

 

[Toneyz]

I gave you an optimistic, because it may NOT be able to get spares separately, time and effort would be better used in fitting the new CU, IMO anyway.

With most of the major manufacturers, I find if you call them in the morning a majority of the time a component is sent and with me the next day a day later to this. It depends upon how quick the consumer unit needs to be up and running.

 

[suffolkspark]

By the time you have ponced about testing, checking, modifying etc, would it not better all round to go or a replacement? I thinks so that is the reason I gave a disagree.

Youd have to perform the same tests on new rcbos anyway, and pinging out and swapping the top bar isnt a big deal as it looks fairly sparse in there, hopefully the OP will keep us updated with what gets done, alltgough i doubt it

 

[Sparky Pat]

If done in 2016 should be done FOC by the original contractor under his 5 yr warranty.

 

[Ian1981]

As above, like for like. Sounds like he's trying to fob you off with a split load board which, although is in the spirit of current regulations, isn't fully compliant with them for division of circuits.

TBH if the RCBOs are in good condition then I would be tempted to just get another bare unit from Screwfix and swap the plastic bits over.

Actually the 18th edition mentions that one or more circuits can be protected by a common rcd subject to other applicable regulations such as this new 30% value of the rcd for earth leakage to the shared circuits on the same rcd

 

[Midwest]

If done in 2016 should be done FOC by the original contractor under his 5 yr warranty.

What 5 warranty is that?

 

[westward10]

Actually the 18th edition mentions that one or more circuits can be protected by a common rcd subject to other applicable regulations such as this new 30% value of the rcd for earth leakage to the shared circuits on the same rcd

I just did that in #22

 

[Ian1981]

I just did that in #22

Yes but you just wanted to upset Murdoch

 

[Ian1981]

I just did that in #22

Yes but you just wanted to upset Murdoch

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I must have slipped through time or something.
For me the 18th doesn’t start for another 3 months.

 

[Ian1981]

You can design and install to the 18th if you wish now

 

[Pete999]

What 5 warranty is that?

To add can't really apply warranty to ----poor workmanship, can you??

Yes but you just wanted to upset Murdoch

Not to difficult a task.

 

[Dave OCD]

On a slight tangent, I know it's considered good or accepted practice to put your circuits in order of load/OCPD rating from the main switch but with RCBO boards I like mixing them up to avoid build up of heat in one area.

 

[telectrix]

On a slight tangent, I know it's considered good or accepted practice to put your circuits in order of load/OCPD rating from the main switch but with RCBO boards I like mixing them up to avoid build up of heat in one area.

itusedto be back in the days when old busbars preferred the heavier loads closer to the main switch, but not been considered good practice since pete999 got out of nappies

 

[Strima]

On a slight tangent, I know it's considered good or accepted practice to put your circuits in order of load/OCPD rating from the main switch but with RCBO boards I like mixing them up to avoid build up of heat in one area.

A lot of manufacturers recommend mixing light and heavy loads along the boards to avoid mutual heating and magnetic effects.

 

[Pete999]

itusedto be back in the days when old busbars preferred the heavier loads closer to the main switch, but not been considered good practice since pete999 got out of nappies

Can't remember that far back Tel

 

[Dave OCD]

And yet the board which is the subject of this very thread has all the big stuff first and together, may have been a contributory factor to the molten mess.

 

[Dave OCD]

A lot of manufacturers recommend mixing light and heavy loads along the boards to avoid mutual heating and magnetic effects.

And there's even a tick box in the schedule of inspections for this....

 

[westward10]

And there's even a tick box in the schedule of inspections for this....

Which one, can't be bothered to look.

 

[Dave OCD]

Which one, can't be bothered to look.

I can't be bothered either this time of day but it's in the Consumer Units part of the schedule [EIC and EICR I think], of course it could refer to other things too, such as not not having a single live conductor through a metal hole.

 

[Toneyz]

itusedto be back in the days when old busbars preferred the heavier loads closer to the main switch, but not been considered good practice since pete999 got out of nappies

What! that long ago!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Octopus]

Actually the 18th edition mentions that one or more circuits can be protected by a common rcd subject to other applicable regulations such as this new 30% value of the rcd for earth leakage to the shared circuits on the same rcd

I’ve long pondered how we are supposed to calculate this , and how anyone could say a new install doesn’t comply ........is anyone’s guess

 

[Ian1981]

I’ve long pondered how we are supposed to calculate this , and how anyone could say a new install doesn’t comply ........is anyone’s guess

It’s quite interesting how we will deal with circuits that require high integrity earthing such as IT equipment socket outlet circuits and pieces of equipment that exceed 10 mA, as if they are to be on a 30 mA rcd then that’s 9 mA at 30% maximum.
So I guess you can ignore high integrity earthing when installing a ring circuit for IT equipment as your circuit should be designed not to exceed 9 mA unless the rcd is dumped by doing a risk assessment.
Another well thought out regulation change

 

[Dave OCD]

@Sparky Pat ,can you kindly elaborate on what you consider bad spelling in post 41 please ? Just so I can learn from my mistakes.

 

[Wilko]

It’s quite interesting how we will deal with circuits that require high integrity earthing such as IT equipment socket outlet circuits and pieces of equipment that exceed 10 mA, as if they are to be on a 30 mA rcd then that’s 9 mA at 30% maximum.
So I guess you can ignore high integrity earthing when installing a ring circuit for IT equipment as your circuit should be designed not to exceed 9 mA unless the rcd is dumped by doing a risk assessment.
Another well thought out regulation change

Ha - well spotted - must mean there's not quite enough monkeys with typewriters in there yet. Hopefully the next one will turn it into 1/3 say.

 

[MFS Electrical]

Utter crap sounds like he wants to fit a dual RCD board to save a bit of money the setup you have there complies with the 18th edition and sticking in a dual RCD board could potentially cause problems with Selectivity(discrimination) ie a problem on one circuit could wipe out a few instead of just one I suggest you say to your electrician you want an RCBO board installed or find yourself another electrician.
RCBOs already incorporate both an RCD and an MCB for each and every circuit rather than MCBs for every circuit and RCDs protecting a bank of circuits.
To be perfectly honest he sounds like a bit of a chancer.
The only way to improve on the setup you have there is to install Arc Fault Detection Devices AFDDs but this can still be done using RCBOs anything else is just a compromise and not as good as what you already have

 

[Midwest]

Have you seen a board with AFFD's in it, available for the domestic market. Think they are rocking horse pooh at the moment.