EICR check failed

[jon evans]

Hi Guys, Just had an EICR test and was told it will fail , but not too bad (a couple of C2s) but needs doing. Waiting for the failure cert. to show me the total work needed, and should be here tomorrow. Is there a kind soul out there who can assist me [a retired old electrician who's quite confused by all this new stuff] in fixing it ? I'm in the NW6 area in London. I can pay cash and help with stripping cables etc and supply tea or coffee and the cheese and pickle sandwiches as and when required. Please call me !

 

[buzzlightyear]

Hi Guys, Just had an EICR test and was told it will fail , but not too bad (a couple of C2s

Who told you that and if saw its normaly give the test certs to the customers and its down to them.

 

[westward10]

What are they providing you with, an EICR doesn't fail as such it will just be unsatisfactory. Did they hint as to what the Code 2 issues are.

 

[pc1966]

When you get the report you can post it here with any personal identification blanked off (like your name, who did the EICR, etc). Maybe also a photo of any items mentioned as well if it helps understand what/why a C1/C2 has been issued.

That way you can get some feedback on what might be the best route to correcting any issues raised.

 

[James]

Remember, you don't need to have a replacement EICR done with a satisfactory outcome, you just need to document that the repairs have been done.

I.e. If the C1, or C2 were because of say a broken light switch or socket outlet, you could replace it yourself.
that is of course reliant on you being able to do the work correctly and if ever required to prove your competence , capable of doing so.

 

[jon evans]

OK guys, many thanks for the advice and will post report when I get it. The tester did say the consumer unit
was at least 20 years old and would need updating/replacing.

 

[SJD]

OK guys, many thanks for the advice and will post report when I get it. The tester did say the consumer unit
was at least 20 years old and would need updating/replacing.

The report should say what the issues are (e.g. missing RCD protection) and not how to fix it (like replace a consumer unit just because it is old). Replacing the consumer unit might be the simplest outcome, but there could be other options.

 

[ayubabroad]

Hi

Just had a EICR fail, was told that it needs to be put on the PME system and a new CCU.

Does not specify what exactly is wrong with it. The tenant said they just spent 10 minuetes testing the sockets and left.

I am a bit suspicious.

 

[DefyG]

was at least 20 years old and would need updating/replacing.

Age is not a reason for replacement!

 

[DefyG]

10 minuetes testing
I am a bit suspicious.

Rightly So!

 

[telectrix]

Age is not a reason for replacement!

if it was, I'd have been replaced years ago.

 

[DPG]

Hi

Just had a EICR fail, was told that it needs to be put on the PME system and a new CCU.

Does not specify what exactly is wrong with it. The tenant said they just spent 10 minuetes testing the sockets and left.

I am a bit suspicious.

Could you post the EICR on here for us to look at. Redact any names and addresses though.

 

[ayubabroad]

Could you post the EICR on here for us to look at. Redact any names and addresses though.

Hi Thanks for the reply, I have attached the EICR and some photos.

Thanks

 

[pc1966]

Hi Thanks for the reply, I have attached the EICR and some photos.

Well the supply earth is in very poor condition and definitely a C2 fault, but there is something a bit odd about it: That looks like a fairly new cutout (grey thing below your meter) but the earth connection to the supply cable does not look like something the DNO (power supply company, I'm guessing UK Power Networks for your location) would do or consider acceptable.

Unless you have electrical stuff in the bathroom and it is not properly bonded (earth wires across pipes, etc), I would dispute a C2 for no RCD protection, but for your own safety / peace of mind having RCD protection is a good thing.

Not commented on is the dangling state of the tails (black & red cables from meter to your fuse box = CU), those should be supported / clipped to the wall!

Also the test result correctly notices the hob is a C-curve 32A MCB, but the Zs limit shown is for B-curve (minor, but makes poor earth even more important to fix).

Other might notice other stuff in the EICR, but certainly you have to get the earthing sorted out ASAP.

 

[Rockingit]

My take on those pics: Fly-by inspection not worth the paper and whoever fitted the key meter couldn't be bothered to put the tails back behind the water pipe! Agreed the earth either needs changing to the proper clamp or more usefully moving onto PME but those are both DNO items to resolve.

If you do genuinely need (or want) RCD protection then I'd suggest one overall RCD on the incoming supply would take about 10 mins to fit and also resolve the issue of supporting the tails, although, as there's no Insulation Resistance results on the sheet then that might be a tbc.

 

[Vortigern]

Hang on a minute, has this thread been cuckolded!

 

[freddo]

I'm surprised no insulation resistance tests were carried out. The incoming water and gas pipes both appear to be metal and bonded, I would have thought the Zs readings would be much lower with these connected. The pipe clamp appears to be attached to the outer mechanical protection layers of that PILS cable rather than the lead sheath itself which might explain the high reading. There is no way the DNO would have made a connection like that.

 

[goasis]

Obviously never heard of the live&neutral to cpc IR test......

 

[ayubabroad]

Well the supply earth is in very poor condition and definitely a C2 fault, but there is something a bit odd about it: That looks like a fairly new cutout (grey thing below your meter) but the earth connection to the supply cable does not look like something the DNO (power supply company, I'm guessing UK Power Networks for your location) would do or consider acceptable.

Unless you have electrical stuff in the bathroom and it is not properly bonded (earth wires across pipes, etc), I would dispute a C2 for no RCD protection, but for your own safety / peace of mind having RCD protection is a good thing.

Not commented on is the dangling state of the tails (black & red cables from meter to your fuse box = CU), those should be supported / clipped to the wall!

Also the test result correctly notices the hob is a C-curve 32A MCB, but the Zs limit shown is for B-curve (minor, but makes poor earth even more important to fix).

Other might notice other stuff in the EICR, but certainly you have to get the earthing sorted out ASAP.

What about the CCU, does that really need replacing?

 

[timhoward]

What about the CCU, does that really need replacing?

"need" is too strong a word. To make it safe, no. But it would be advisable as the additional protection is well worth having.
Had it not been for the earthing situation I would suggest many inspectors would have declared that installation to be satisfactory, assuming nothing else was missed. Not up to latest regs, but that doesn't make it unsafe.
But whatever you do with the CU, please get the earthing sorted out asap. Right now in some fault conditions there is no guarantee the supply will turn off.

 

[ayubabroad]

"need" is too strong a word. To make it safe, no. But it would be advisable as the additional protection is well worth having.
Had it not been for the earthing situation I would suggest many inspectors would have declared that installation to be satisfactory, assuming nothing else was missed. Not up to latest regs, but that doesn't make it unsafe.
But whatever you do with the CU, please get the earthing sorted out asap. Right now in some fault conditions there is no guarantee the supply will turn off.

Thank you all for your comments they were very informative.

 

[Teddy Lop]

I'm surprised no insulation resistance tests were carried out. The incoming water and gas pipes both appear to be metal and bonded, I would have thought the Zs readings would be much lower with these connected. The pipe clamp appears to be attached to the outer mechanical protection layers of that PILS cable rather than the lead sheath itself which might explain the high reading. There is no way the DNO would have made a connection like that.

I've seen a few property's in London area where the earth on the rotten old lead sheaf supply cable is failing, according to UKPN "we're not obliged to give you an earth go away" and they seem to think an underground cable with questionable earthing on the sheaf is okay. Like for example the recent notable case of sticking flamible stuff to high rise buildings It's a case of waiting for people to die then everyone who's duty it was to know and be responsible acts all surprised.

Only option in the meantime is to TT it, so yes full RCD protected new consumer unit would be highly advisable.

 

[hasel5]

First thing that should be done is get the DNO out to sort out the The High ZE then go from there at least that should make the disconnection times acceptable for the install

 

[nicebutdim]

I've seen a few property's in London area where the earth on the rotten old lead sheaf supply cable is failing, according to UKPN "we're not obliged to give you an earth go away" and they seem to think an underground cable with questionable earthing on the sheaf is okay. Like for example the recent notable case of sticking flamible stuff to high rise buildings It's a case of waiting for people to die then everyone who's duty it was to know and be responsible acts all surprised.

Only option in the meantime is to TT it, so yes full RCD protected new consumer unit would be highly advisable.

Aren't they required to maintain an earth where it has been provided?

 

[Dartlec]

Aren't they required to maintain an earth where it has been provided?

They are (though not sure who would force them) - and since they have no records as to whether one was originally provided or not they could I guess claim that any TN-S clamp was not done by them. It is after all very common to see the bonding clamps used for them which is usually a DIY 'upgrade' (Though apparently they were approved for a period in the 70s)

Having said that, in the Kent/London border areas I work, they've always managed to provide PME when asked - even on overhead lines.

 

[Teddy Lop]

They are (though not sure who would force them) - and since they have no records as to whether one was originally provided or not they could I guess claim that any TN-S clamp was not done by them. It is after all very common to see the bonding clamps used for them which is usually a DIY 'upgrade' (Though apparently they were approved for a period in the 70s)

Having said that, in the Kent/London border areas I work, they've always managed to provide PME when asked - even on overhead lines.

^that, 99% of properties here have had the old sweated on wire chopped right back and a pipe clamp installed, ukpn response is "prove to us we provided an earth" which is often not possible

 

[UNG]

^that, 99% of properties here have had the old sweated on wire chopped right back and a pipe clamp installed, ukpn response is "prove to us we provided an earth" which is often not possible

Had it a few times, I usually do a Ze on the cable sheath if it comes back as a viable earth then that is what I base my argument on for the DNO having provided an earth in the past or I ask them if it is normal for them to place uninsulated extraneous metalwork in a consumers premises

 

[pc1966]

^that, 99% of properties here have had the old sweated on wire chopped right back and a pipe clamp installed, ukpn response is "prove to us we provided an earth" which is often not possible

I guess if there is evidence of the old wire remaining that would be sufficient proof?

 

[pc1966]

But equally, if it is a metallic sheathed cable then it ought to be properly earthed anyway so any poor sod who can contact it in the event of a cable fault is not fried.

 

[ayubabroad]

I'm surprised no insulation resistance tests were carried out. The incoming water and gas pipes both appear to be metal and bonded, I would have thought the Zs readings would be much lower with these connected. The pipe clamp appears to be attached to the outer mechanical protection layers of that PILS cable rather than the lead sheath itself which might explain the high reading. There is no way the DNO would have made a connection like that.

DNO ?

 

[ukiri]

I've seen a few property's in London area where the earth on the rotten old lead sheaf supply cable is failing, according to UKPN "we're not obliged to give you an earth go away" and they seem to think an underground cable with questionable earthing on the sheaf is okay. Like for example the recent notable case of sticking flamible stuff to high rise buildings It's a case of waiting for people to die then everyone who's duty it was to know and be responsible acts all surprised.

Only option in the meantime is to TT it, so yes full RCD protected new consumer unit would be highly advisable.

Could just fit an upfront rcd in a plastic enclosure