Periodic fault codes

[Jel]

Hi guys,

Was wondering what code you would put down on a periodic inspection report, for a consumer unit without any RCD protection?

 

[telectrix]

code 4. not compliant with current regs.

 

[paturback]

Hi guys,

Was wondering what code you would put down on a periodic inspection report, for a consumer unit without any RCD protection?

Code 4 Does not comply with the current issue
of BS 7671.

 

[Jel]

Thank you.

 

[IQ Electrical]

What is it supplying? There is no requirement for a 'consumer unit' to have RCD protection, it's done on a circuit by circuit basis depending on many variables.

Read this: http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/best_practice/BPG4_08.pdf

 

[oldtimer]

What is it supplying? There is no requirement for a 'consumer unit' to have RCD protection, it's done on a circuit by circuit basis depending on many variables.

Read this: http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/best_practice/BPG4_08.pdf

Totally agree what a lot of tosh telling the customer the obvious and when he asks do I have to change it I always say no if you board meets the current regs then its ok because this is just a recommendation and if this is the case then we should not be putting it on the forms it only confuses the issue

 

[IQ Electrical]

Totally agree what a lot of tosh telling the customer the obvious and when he asks do I have to change it I always say no if you board meets the current regs then its ok because this is just a recommendation and if this is the case then we should not be putting it on the forms it only confuses the issue

Ha, do you know how many PIR's I see with 'no RCD protection to distribution board'?

Sort of sets the scene for the quality of the rest of the report, normally utter rubbish...

 

[Octopus]

What does concern me is the number of sparkies who put no RCD down as a code 2 or even worse, a code 1

Madness.

 

[IQ Electrical]

What does concern me is the number of sparkies who put no RCD down as a code 2 or even worse, a code 1

Madness.

That's another report quality clue!

This 'competency to test' is a rare animal!

 

[paturback]

Totally agree what a lot of tosh telling the customer the obvious and when he asks do I have to change it I always say no if you board meets the current regs then its ok because this is just a recommendation and if this is the case then we should not be putting it on the forms it only confuses the issue

Yes i would only code 4 where there was an Absence of fault protection by RCD where required, and must admit i assumed the OP was referring to such a situation, breaking the number one rule assume nothing!

 

[telectrix]

That's another report quality clue!

This 'competency to test' is a rare animal!

my lady says i'm an animal, don't know how rare though. like my steaks rare.

 

[IQ Electrical]

my lady says i'm an animal, don't know how rare though. like my steaks rare.

A mouse or a tiger?

 

[telectrix]

whichever she says.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I would say it depends on the reason for the PIR, for example.

If its "To assess the condition of the installation in relation to current standards" The i would give it a code 4.

If its "To assess the condition of the installation to ensure it is in a safe condition for continued use" Then no code at all.

It is down to the Test and Inspection Electrician to use his judgement and code according to the purpose of the T&I.

Cheers..........Howard

 

[GOODWIN]

Hi guys,

Was wondering what code you would put down on a periodic inspection report, for a consumer unit without any RCD protection?

say the codes out loud then apply common sense then u'll see what code it is (unless its on a TT), i would recommend a RCD to all customers and anyway as soon as they want that extra kitch socket they have to have one
ESC guide is very good

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If the installation is TT then I would go for Code 1 or no code at all depending on the Ra of the earth electrode.
Any other type of system, then no code at all, as there is no requirement for the CU to have RCD protection.

 

[Engineer54]

Just wondering, as i have no experience of these 17th BS 7671 PIR inspection reports, but isn't there any official in-depth guidance on these code allocations?? As i see, on a daily basis, many queries on what code to allocate in this and that situation...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Just wondering, as i have no experience of these 17th BS 7671 PIR inspection reports, but isn't there any official in-depth guidance on these code allocations?? As i see, on a daily basis, many queries on what code to allocate in this and that situation...

Yes, code 1 is for immediate danger, code 2 is for a situation which may become dangerous if left, code 3 requires further investigation and code 4 does not comply with the current edition of BS7671, but in itself is not necessarily unsafe.

 

[Engineer54]

Yes, code 1 is for immediate danger, code 2 is for a situation which may become dangerous if left, code 3 requires further investigation and code 4 does not comply with the current edition of BS7671, but in itself is not necessarily unsafe.

And i take it, those official code designations are then left to the electrician for interpretation??

So what about not-so-official guidance, those that will give multiple examples of code designations??

As i see it, without any real testing experience, i can see where some new electricians could quite easily be confused, and to play on the safe side and give unrealistic code allocations...

 

[IQ Electrical]

And i take it, those official code designations are then left to the electrician for interpretation??

So what about not-so-official guidance, those that will give multiple examples of code designations??

As i see it, without any real testing experience, i can see where some new electricians could quite easily be confused, and to play on the safe side and give unrealistic code allocations...

And that's where competence comes into play.

How can you provide a code for every scenario, supply type and circumstance that crops up from installation to installation?

Each code allocation is a risk assessment carried out by the competent inspector using all of the information at his/her disposal.

A defect in a factory will have a totally different risk element than the same defect in a primary school.

That is why an above-average knowledge of BS7671:2008 and the type of installation being inspected is so important to attempt to eradicate the rubbish that I get to read week in and week out, masquerading as a periodic inspection report.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I have to admit I would code 2 a socket outlet that could supply a piece of mobile equipment less than 32 amp outdoors, ie a ground floor circuit with sockets near a door or window, in any installation, where that circuit was not RCD protected.

 

[Engineer54]

And that's where competence comes into play.

How can you provide a code for every scenario, supply type and circumstance that crops up from installation to installation?

Each code allocation is a risk assessment carried out by the competent inspector using all of the information at his/her disposal.

A defect in a factory will have a totally different risk element than the same defect in a primary school.

That is why an above-average knowledge of BS7671:2008 and the type of installation being inspected is so important to attempt to eradicate the rubbish that I get to read week in and week out, masquerading as a periodic inspection report.

And i take it there's no real way around that lack of competency, because that will only come from experience and understanding of what those circumstances, the test results coupled with the risk assessment actually mean!!!

OK, thanks Spin and yourself IQ, i can now better understand why so many queries are seen on these forums relating to these 4 code allocations...

You say that your companies main area of work these day's is in these PIR's and other testing formats, ..does your company implement any ongoing training schemes for trainee's ?? I think it might be a good idea to tie up with a local collage and give a selected few some broad based training in the Inspection and testing side of a trainee electricians training. Might be a very worth while addition to your local electrical industry too ...lol!!!

 

[Des 56]

Another point to consider as far as test and inspection is concerned
An opinoin of an installation requires competence in the understanding of the test results and a knowlege of that type of installation

In a nutshell,the person doing the inspection should be familliar and experienced of those installations

That means that to be familliar requires that installation experience of doing that type of work is necessary so that comparisons can be made,it is esential

Periodics are the achiles heel of the industry,too many or even the majority of these pirs in whatever sector, in essence, are toilet roll value

The industry should address this but it turns it head away continually

 

[IQ Electrical]

And i take it there's no real way around that lack of competency, because that will only come from experience and understanding of what those circumstances, the test results coupled with the risk assessment actually mean!!!

OK, thanks Spin and yourself IQ, i can now better understand why so many queries are seen on these forums relating to these 4 code allocations...

You say that your companies main area of work these day's is in these PIR's and other testing formats, ..does your company implement any ongoing training schemes for trainee's ?? I think it might be a good idea to tie up with a local collage and give a selected few some broad based training in the Inspection and testing side of a trainee electricians training. Might be a very worth while addition to your local electrical industry too ...lol!!!

The problem is, most that are still training are not ready for the intricacies of periodic inspection, it's one specific area where you absolutely cannot substitute experience of a wide range of installations and device types that could be up to 50 years old.

Anyway, code 4 ceases to exist in a few months with the introduction of the Electrical Installation Condition Report and then the fun can really begin with the coding posts!

I've been asked by the IET as a 'spinoff' to the Guidance Note 3 rewrite to look at suggested codings for the soon to be amended ESC Best Practice Guide 4 and I see many discussions ahead before agreement will be reached in that respect

 

[Engineer54]

The problem is, most that are still training are not ready for the intricacies of periodic inspection, it's one specific area where you absolutely cannot substitute experience of a wide range of installations and device types that could be up to 50 years old.

Anyway, code 4 ceases to exist in a few months with the introduction of the Electrical Installation Condition Report and then the fun can really begin with the coding posts!

I've been asked by the IET as a 'spinoff' to the Guidance Note 3 rewrite to look at suggested codings for the soon to be amended ESC Best Practice Guide 4 and I see many discussions ahead before agreement will be reached in that respect

If i know how the Institutes discussions go, which i DO, then we won't be seeing much of you on here!!! lol!! I wish you luck IQ, i hope you have a lot of patience mate, and don't mind listening to a lot of twoddle, and someone popping up out of the blue, wanting/insisting to make amendments just as you think you've got the whole thing nailed!!!