Discuss advice please? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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edward cooper

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walsall
i work for a company that fits safety alarms in peoples homes. The equipment is effectively rented from us until it is no longer required and then returned back to us. Then it will be reused in another property. What safety checks should be carried out before it is deemed suitable for re allocation.

As PAT testing covers equipment in a commercial setting but not domestic (yet). What do you believe is suitable.
 
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edward cooper

Regular EF Member
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thanks for replay. they are more for fixed equipment ie burglar alarms. The alarms I fit are incase people fall etc with pendants and monitoring box plugged in and linked to telephone equipment.

My first post was a little unclear. Sorry.
 

oldtimer

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Would it need a PAT test as they have a transformer plug ? I tend to shy away from Sky,Virgin,BT boxes plus internet equipment because of the obvious electronics issue but also because the customer does not own this equipment so for me it would be a visual as all of this gear is double insulated and I am yet to get a definitive answer from anybody why I need to PAT test it as the tester links out L&N ? I have asked a couple of "PAT" testers but I just get this glazed look and a I just plug it in and set the tester to class II comment
 
D

drew35

Maybe for the vast amount of money I pay for my elderly relatives alarm, and taking into account the £%$" service provided, that people should get a new alarm and not a second hand one that you don't even know how to test! And which come the time, probably won't then work anyway!

Thanks for letting me know they're second hand, I'm off to have an angry conversation with someone!!!
 

Guitarist

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5,250
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Norfolk
i work for a company that fits safety alarms in peoples homes. The equipment is effectively rented from us until it is no longer required and then returned back to us. Then it will be reused in another property. What safety checks should be carried out before it is deemed suitable for re allocation.

As PAT testing covers equipment in a commercial setting but not domestic (yet). What do you believe is suitable.
What have you been doing to date, or is it a brand new Company?
 
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edward cooper

Regular EF Member
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47
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walsall
i have been economical with truth as to what i do and the company for discretion. it may or may not be a new company or local authority and i may or may not work for them directly. just wanted your advice and recommendations because as this came to light when the transformer plug fell apart in my hands i just want to be armed with solution when i bring it up.

there are no pat testing labels on the equipment but as i say not sure they would be needed?

also as oldtimer states they are 12v.

so would you say pat test labelled and records kept or just visual?
 
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edward cooper

Regular EF Member
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47
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walsall
my agenda trev is to ensure that the equipment been fitted is safe and fit for purpose because i am not able to see the checks carried out to equipment prior to it been given to me for fitting so i am looking into it now.
 

oldtimer

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obviously you should have stated your intentions all you had to do was inform us from the start what actually happened dont get me wrong we are used to people coming on the forum with half a story but as you can see after about 6 posts members tend to get irritated because they start to think they are getting used and then they get quoted at meeting when in reality they did not get the whole story and by the way this is not a lecture I understand that this is the internet a people dont want to give too much information away but you need to be more transparent
 
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edward cooper

Regular EF Member
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walsall
this is to drew not you oldtimer.

wind your neck in mate. im here trying to solve problem not to be criticised by you. i know exactly how to test but not into PAT testing i also hold 2391 current regs etc so i suggest you read between lines with the fact that i cant say whole truth as i need to protect my employeer. Which is NOT the company that supply these alarms.

all im after is what rules govern the fixing of electronic equipment that is second hand in to a domestic setting. if the answer is non then they are allowed to do it, if its it need pat testing then i will ensure that the company can provide evidence that this is carried out before they are re used. i just want to know what i am asked to install is safe.

i have been as transparent as i can oldtimer. i am here on the grounds of safety only.
 
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trev

Regular EF Member
"i have been economical with truth as to what i do and the company for discretion. it may or may not be a new company or local authority and i may or may not work for them directly"

You have to admit all that sounds a tad dubious though Edward.
I'd say that because the equipment is being used commercially IE the company is renting it out then it should be tested in accordance with the PAT regime
 
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edward cooper

Regular EF Member
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walsall
i would agree with you but as the equipment has no testing labels on the it is obviously not been carried out. dont mean to be dubious but lets just say its partnership work between government departments and i cant say more than that.
 
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alarm man

as per some suppliers of this type of kit...

PAT (Portable Appliance Testing)
[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]Tunstall telecare equipment does not need to be tested under PAT regulations, as the telecare sensors work on a radio frequency and the Lifeline home units themselves operate in conjunction with a plug transformer and therefore the cable to the unit is low voltage. However, brief details of PAT testing follow as they may be useful when planning your overall service.
PAT testing forms part of a Health & Safety Policy to ensure employers take reasonable steps to ensure no danger results from using electrical appliances. Where electrical appliances are either used by employees, used in public areas or are supplied or hired the Health & Safety at Work Act places a duty of care on employers.
The level of inspection and testing required is dependant upon the risk of the appliance becoming faulty, which is in turn dependant upon the type of appliance, the nature of its use and the environment in which it is used. Portable appliances include items:
• Weighing less than 18kg which can easily be moved from one place to another, eg toasters, vacuums
• Hand held during normal use, eg hairdryers
• IT equipment, eg computers, printers
• Stationary appliances, eg fridges, cookers
• Fixed appliances, eg wall heaters
The Health & Safety Executive offers no absolute rules on the frequency of the testing but factors such as the environment, likelihood of abuse, equipment type and construction should be considered.
Testing must be undertaken by people with appropriate qualifications, skills and experience. Visual inspection and electrical testing should be undertaken by a competent person.
Records must also be kept in order provide evidence, should it be required, that all reasonable steps and due diligence were undertaken to comply with the regulations. This will also highlight any common or recurring faults with equipment.
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 

oldtimer

Regular EF Member
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4,313
Location
Edinburgh
alarm man is this the same Munford & White Tunstall

Edward me thinks you have us caught up in a ****ing contest between department where people spend more time trying to outsmart each other rather than getting on with the job in hand is it any wonder they have a gold plated pension but we dont want to work for it mentality no wonder they get a bad reputation
 
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edward cooper

Regular EF Member
Messages
47
Location
walsall
old timer im just a man that gets a piece of equipment and has to fit it where i am told. i think you have been watching to many espionage movies over the years to think i have any agenda. im not trying to out smart anyone i have no gold plated pension i just want to know that when a peice of equipment fails and the shock manages to kill a poor old lady (low voltage or not) with a heart defect that they wont come knocking on my door.
 
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alarm man

alarm man is this the same Munford & White Tunstall

Edward me thinks you have us caught up in a ****ing contest between department where people spend more time trying to outsmart each other rather than getting on with the job in hand is it any wonder they have a gold plated pension but we dont want to work for it mentality no wonder they get a bad reputation
i belive so,tho i think tunstall sold the security side and kept the comms side on,i know they bought vital call from modern alarms
 

oldtimer

Regular EF Member
Messages
4,313
Location
Edinburgh
old timer im just a man that gets a piece of equipment and has to fit it where i am told. i think you have been watching to many espionage movies over the years to think i have any agenda. im not trying to out smart anyone i have no gold plated pension i just want to know that when a peice of equipment fails and the shock manages to kill a poor old lady (low voltage or not) with a heart defect that they wont come knocking on my door.
Not really I like the movies but can take or leave the espionage the thing is I have worked around enough national and local government organisations to get a good feel on how they operate so my comment are not urban myth and are purely my own coupled with my observations over the years so to give you an insite my late mum got a visit from the council who was canvasing her and the other tenants to get the litter in the grounds picked up once a month and it would only cost £3 a month on her rent so my mum said you want me and the other 15 tenants to pay you £48 a month so you can pay a contractor £20-£28 a month to pick up a MvDonalds or a chippie wrappers containers that some ****les youth or drunk has discarded up the road and theres me thinking you were visiting me because you were concerned about my health a welfare well you better get on and tap the other 15 doors because remember its my taxes you are spending to do this plus you know my answer so close the door behind you because I can barely contain my anger that you are getting paid for this
 
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