Am i entitled to call myself a sparky?

Discuss Am i entitled to call myself a sparky? in the Electrician Courses : Electrical Quals area at ElectriciansForums.net

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hillen1986

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Ok , so i completed 2365 level 3, and also 17th edition. At my place of work , I'm the go to guy, as well as another very experienced electrician, to do the electrical work. They don't seem to have a problem with me not having the nvq completed ( maybe naive) . I've had some issues with a new contract, and am seeking more pay. but am basing it on my quals that i already have, do i have a ground to fight for better pay?

4 years experience and 2365 level 3, i also have engineering maintenance level 2 nvq, IOSH, HACCP , 17th edition. Surely with these quals i can insist on this?

This is an engineering environment predominantly, but of course electrical work needs doing too.
 
I would say no if im honest, until you have completed the NVQ and Am2 you cant deem yourself an Electrician. I can swap a washer on a tap but i cant call myself a plumber. If im really honest your not really an Electrician until you have been qualified for a few years and have experienced a large variety of the different work areas, i.e. Domestic, Commercial and Industrial.
 
You can call yourself whatever you want lol.....the term "Electrician" is not a protected one. However, the JIB will grade people as Electricians , Approved etc and firms recognise this as it's the only reasonable system we have. They want NVQ3 for you as you have a later qual though..... old school can grade with 236 2360 or whatever.
 
TJ Anderson said:
You can call yourself whatever you want lol.....the term "Electrician" is not a protected one. However, the JIB will grade people as Electricians , Approved etc and firms recognise this as it's the only reasonable system we have. They want NVQ3 for you as you have a later qual though..... old school can grade with 236 2360 or whatever.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply
 
Why didn't you do the NVQ? If you're working as an Electrician and you think you're an electrician then it'll be easy enough.
I'm fully qualified with 7 years experience and I don't truly feel like I'm done learning yet.
 
Call yourself what you want mate. People can go on a 4 week course join a CPS scheme and call themselves an electrician.
 
I have not done the AM2 nor have a JIB card....
 
Quite a few times served electricians where I work have never done AM2. Does that mean they are not electricians?

One electrician at my works failed the AM2 when it first came out. He's still considered and payed as an electrician
 
as per spoon.if your rate is below what you expect then ask why.
 
gazdkw82 said:
Quite a few times served electricians where I work have never done AM2. Does that mean they are not electricians?

One electrician at my works failed the AM2 when it first came out. He's still considered and payed as an electrician
Click to expand...

It depends. If they got their NVQ without it as I did then yes. If they needed the AM2 to
Complete their NVQ and so never got the NVQ then no.
 
Joshua said:
Why didn't you do the NVQ? If you're working as an Electrician and you think you're an electrician then it'll be easy enough.
I'm fully qualified with 7 years experience and I don't truly feel like I'm done learning yet.
Click to expand...

My job is predominantly a maintenance Engineer, but i do some electrical work too. I'm certainly not done learning, and at this place i never will be, there just isn't enough variation of work. But if they have me working for say £11 an hour, i don't feel it would be wrong to have a bit more , considering when they get contractors in doing the same work , £25 an hour is cheap.
 
Spoon said:
What issues do you have with the new contract?
If they are going you the work of an 'electrician' but not the pay then ask them why.
Click to expand...

The reason is because I'm still considered by them, to be training. But at the same time, get me doing work that only a qualified sparky can do. It's an odd situation granted, just wanted some input from guys who are fully qualified and long term served.
 
hillen1986 said:
My job is predominantly a maintenance Engineer, but i do some electrical work too. I'm certainly not done learning, and at this place i never will be, there just isn't enough variation of work. But if they have me working for say £11 an hour, i don't feel it would be wrong to have a bit more , considering when they get contractors in doing the same work , £25 an hour is cheap.
Click to expand...

Aldi pay £10 an hour so surely you are worth more then a pound more then their shelf stacker.
 
Its an emotive issue, for those who did the nvq am2 route, fair play and good for you. I appreciate why you get annoyed with people calling themselves an electrician after you spent so many years training.
Do i call myself one , yes i do, if you described my work and asked customers they would all say i am an electrician. I do not have the NVQ and AM2, never got around to it, I came to this career after leaving the forces with a technical background. I have the 2365 L2&3 17th edition, 2392 and 2394 and due to sit 2391 version of the old 2395 in new year. I also have a NVQ in aerospace engineering.
Have 8 years in this career now, I consider myself reasonably knowledgeable and always willing to keep learning,I have an eye for detail and am very safety conscious. Registered with NICEIC purely to sign stuff off. So in eyes of some I am a DI. I dont do industrial stuff but stick with house bashing and light commercial stuff.
The point I make though is that I have met some people with all the qualifications nvq, am2 etc but they are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed near a screwdriver. The quality of the work is questionable.
I have met electricians mates who I would sooner trust and are sometimes more knowledgeable.
 
£11 /hour is taking the pi$$. that's less than mates rate.
 
What does your new contract say about your role? As that will have a large bearing on how much your paid not what qualifications you have.
 
This
Gavin John Hyde said:
Its an emotive issue, for those who did the nvq am2 route, fair play and good for you. I appreciate why you get annoyed with people calling themselves an electrician after you spent so many years training.
Do i call myself one , yes i do, if you described my work and asked customers they would all say i am an electrician. I do not have the NVQ and AM2, never got around to it, I came to this career after leaving the forces with a technical background. I have the 2365 L2&3 17th edition, 2392 and 2394 and due to sit 2391 version of the old 2395 in new year. I also have a NVQ in aerospace engineering.
Have 8 years in this career now, I consider myself reasonably knowledgeable and always willing to keep learning,I have an eye for detail and am very safety conscious. Registered with NICEIC purely to sign stuff off. So in eyes of some I am a DI. I dont do industrial stuff but stick with house bashing and light commercial stuff.
The point I make though is that I have met some people with all the qualifications nvq, am2 etc but they are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed near a screwdriver. The quality of the work is questionable.
I have met electricians mates who I would sooner trust and are sometimes more knowledgeable.
Click to expand...

This puts a lot of perspective on the conversation. I guess it depends on where you came from and what you do. When finished I'll have level 3 in engineering maintenance, level 3 diploma 2365, amongst many other smaller quals, am i a sparky as per the jib? No. Am i a competent worker, that understands the job and what to do? Yes, do i have the knowledge to design an installation to the current regulations? Yes.

Thanks for your input, i feel better knowing someone else is on a similar path, and doing well.
 
hillen1986 said:
The reason is because I'm still considered by them, to be training. But at the same time, get me doing work that only a qualified sparky can do. It's an odd situation granted, just wanted some input from guys who are fully qualified and long term served.
Click to expand...

As @Dillb has asked above "What does your new contract say about your role?"
If they consider you still to be training then technically you should not be 'doing work that only a qualified sparky can do' without supervision.
If you are doing the work unsupervised then they are classing you in the same ranks as a qualified electrician and should pay you as such. Ask why this is not happening.
 
And anyway,why the big deal about the "electrician" bit?

Argue your case on the merits of ALL your skills and the benefits you bring to the role. If you cannot do this,then maybe they have the rate about right.

You are not going to find a "set" rate,or consistent skills acceptance,so tell them how you can pipe their rats away,and give em' the cost;)
 
westward10 said:
Another bloody charlatan.
Click to expand...
Haha... I am really a kitchen fitter, self taught who after reading a idiots guide to diy electrics went to a training centre as after just 3 weeks they said they could make me an electrician, they told me those 5 week wonder schools were rip off merchants and just want my money, reckoned the 3 week course was superior in every way. For just a bit more money they said they would make me a pat testing engineer and i will be able to make lots of money. At the end they said if i come back for another 4 weeks they would train me as a plumber too. They were really nice people and I can not thank them enough as now i am a qualified electrician and plumber. i still do a bit of kitchen fitting on the side but prefer to do slightly iffy electrical work. Not joined a scheme yet as that would involve knowing what I am doing and I dont have a multi tester, i just turn it on and plug a socket tester or light bulb in to see if it trips and works. not gone bang yet. I dont have insurance either as all my work is kosher so dont need it.
 
Spoon said:
As @Dillb has asked above "What does your new contract say about your role?"
If they consider you still to be training then technically you should not be 'doing work that only a qualified sparky can do' without supervision.
If you are doing the work unsupervised then they are classing you in the same ranks as a qualified electrician and should pay you as such. Ask why this is not happening.
Click to expand...

Well my task right now, is to clear up all of the cat3s they had hanging around, which is about 100 all in. Would you trust someone who doesn't know what they are doing for this? Considering they are the old red spot boards, riddled with asbestos, multiple circuits from one fuse (bs88) , loose fittings, broken carriers. Lots of sillys, im good enough to rectify these, but not good enough for a pay rise.
 
Gavin John Hyde said:
Haha... I am really a kitchen fitter, self taught who after reading a idiots guide to diy electrics went to a training centre as after just 3 weeks they said they could make me an electrician, they told me those 5 week wonder schools were rip off merchants and just want my money, reckoned the 3 week course was superior in every way. For just a bit more money they said they would make me a pat testing engineer and i will be able to make lots of money. At the end they said if i come back for another 4 weeks they would train me as a plumber too. They were really nice people and I can not thank them enough as now i am a qualified electrician and plumber. i still do a bit of kitchen fitting on the side but prefer to do slightly iffy electrical work. Not joined a scheme yet as that would involve knowing what I am doing and I dont have a multi tester, i just turn it on and plug a socket tester or light bulb in to see if it trips and works. not gone bang yet. I dont have insurance either as all my work is kosher so dont need it.
Click to expand...

My brother worked on site with someone very similar to this. 6 month course online, off you go. I'm a sparky. Sacked within the week i believe.
 
hillen1986 said:
Lots of sillys, im good enough to rectify these, but not good enough for a pay rise.
Click to expand...
Hi - Take back some control - polish up your CV and apply for some jobs. Someone may want you and be willing to pay for it (a good thing) and even if you decide to stay on you'll have improved your interview skills :) .
 
Gavin John Hyde said:
Its an emotive issue, for those who did the nvq am2 route, fair play and good for you. I appreciate why you get annoyed with people calling themselves an electrician after you spent so many years training.
Do i call myself one , yes i do, if you described my work and asked customers they would all say i am an electrician. I do not have the NVQ and AM2, never got around to it, I came to this career after leaving the forces with a technical background. I have the 2365 L2&3 17th edition, 2392 and 2394 and due to sit 2391 version of the old 2395 in new year. I also have a NVQ in aerospace engineering.
Have 8 years in this career now, I consider myself reasonably knowledgeable and always willing to keep learning,I have an eye for detail and am very safety conscious. Registered with NICEIC purely to sign stuff off. So in eyes of some I am a DI. I dont do industrial stuff but stick with house bashing and light commercial stuff.
The point I make though is that I have met some people with all the qualifications nvq, am2 etc but they are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed near a screwdriver. The quality of the work is questionable.
I have met electricians mates who I would sooner trust and are sometimes more knowledgeable.
Click to expand...

Gavin, absolutely spot on. I work for a national maintenance firm and I can tell you that you will be far more knowledgeable than the majority of the so called sparks on there who are JIB registered electricians (the company insist on that) and are a joke. They call themselves Electricians haha..... and can't even wire up a motor .
 
Oddly, the word Electrician derived from Magician - where some bod produced Tesla sparks and made people hair stand on end with the old van de graaff - the Victorians loved it. Even BS7671 doesn't use the term. Competent Person Electrical, I believe... So yes you can be an electrician, if you entertain at Parties apparently.
 
If you work unsupervised on electrical equipment,then by all means call yourself a electrician :clapping:

Take little notice of anyone telling you you need bits of often needless paper qualifications to meet criteria that none of those people can justifiably say is a sure fire estimation of what it entails to term someone a "electrican"

As a protected title the term electrician does not exist,its for you and you only to determine your own status
Its then for any prospective employer to accept or reject you on whatever criteria that happens to satisfy them

None of the posts making comment about how you have to have any particular piece of paper in order to regard yourself as an electrician are correct
 
Also.....I don't have AM2 either or a tech cert.
2356 NVQ3, 2391 and that's it, so you have more quals than me lol.
Des 56 said:
If you work unsupervised on electrical equipment,then by all means call yourself a electrician :clapping:

Take little notice of anyone telling you you need bits of often needless paper qualifications to meet criteria that none of those people can justifiably say is a sure fire estimation of what it entails to term someone a "electrican"

As a protected title the term electrician does not exist,its for you and you only to determine your own status
Its then for any prospective employer to accept or reject you on whatever criteria that happens to satisfy them

None of the posts making comment about how you have to have any particular piece of paper in order to regard yourself as an electrician are correct
Click to expand...

That has some merit, but he doesn't need to convince himself. He needs to convince his employer. If he had a JIB card stating he was an Electrician he wouldn't be having this issue.
 
TJ Anderson said:
Also.....I don't have AM2 either or a tech cert.
2356 NVQ3, 2391 and that's it, so you have more quals than me lol.


That has some merit, but he doesn't need to convince himself. He needs to convince his employer. If he had a JIB card stating he was an Electrician he wouldn't be having this issue.
Click to expand...
How did you get the NVQ3 without a tech certificate?
Is the NVQ not a combination of the tech cert side and the practical portfolio side?
 
You would need it for the current 2357 NVQ3. The old 2356 NVQ3 used to be a standalone qual, not many people realise that. If you could evidence working in the industry for 5 years you could either use 2330 L2&3 or do underpinning knowledge assessments. No AM2 either. Took 3 years though so no quicker than tech cert plus NVQ3.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjACegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw3Iq9QXXj3iPmI3Sa7mV7gk
 
Des 56 said:
If you work unsupervised on electrical equipment,then by all means call yourself a electrician :clapping:

Take little notice of anyone telling you you need bits of often needless paper qualifications to meet criteria that none of those people can justifiably say is a sure fire estimation of what it entails to term someone a "electrican"

As a protected title the term electrician does not exist,its for you and you only to determine your own status
Its then for any prospective employer to accept or reject you on whatever criteria that happens to satisfy them

None of the posts making comment about how you have to have any particular piece of paper in order to regard yourself as an electrician are correct
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input, and i totally agree. Seems there are mixed opinions, but I'll side with the ones that benefit my situation
 
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