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Another fine mess??????

Discuss Another fine mess?????? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Murdoch

Electrician's Arms
A couple of months back one of my neighbours let me know that they were having a new kitchen fitted in their rental property. The complete works were to be undertaken by a very well known major DIY chain. They apologised for not getting me involved (which was very nice of them) but the DIY chain "have their own people".

So here we are 5 weeks after the works are complete. In the kitchen the electrics required modification to incorporate some new sockets.

My neighbour has been chasing said DIY chain for the certificate and Part P notification and nothing has been forthcoming. An exchange of email has taken place and the outcome, so far, is that the kitchen installer did all the work on the kitchen, including the electrics, but he's not registered, nor could he test, nor could he notify. The fitter is not an employee of the DIY chain

So they've asked me to get involved!!!!!!!!

I'm going to speak to the installer tomorrow to get his side of the story.

I've taken a quick look at the new kitchen and the "old style" cooker point has been covered over and I'm guessing that the new sockets were run as a radial off this point. The "old point" is completely hidden by a wall cupboard so its anyones guess how the "extension" to the cable was made.

My thoughts are:

Who can now notify this? (I'm happy to do an EICR on the specific changed circuits)
What tactic should my neighbour take with the DIY chain?
Who's responsibility is it to talk to LABC? The DIY chain, the installer, my neighbour?

My thinks this is going to be protracted as my neighbour knows about Part P etc PLUS his letting agent is asking for the certificates!
 
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Guitarist

Electrician's Arms
As it was work in a kitchen then either the local building control was notified in advance or the work was carried out by a part P registered electrician. If this was not the case then "can of worms" springs to mind.
 

DaveyD

Electrician's Arms
Who's responsibility is it to talk to LABC? The DIY chain, the installer, my neighbour?
It's the householders responsibility to ensure legal, but I shoulod have thought diy.com would have stated to him/her that electricians are registered in which case they take responsibility.
 

Marvo

Admin and gender confused
Staff member
Admin
It's the householders responsibility to ensure legal, but I shoulod have thought diy.com would have stated to him/her that electricians are registered in which case they take responsibility.
And to take that thought all the way the subcontractor will have signed saying he'll ensure the work is legal so he takes responsibility and the 'electrician' will have told the subcontractor he is legal so he takes responsibility.....but all of a sudden his phone will be on answer service and he won't be returning calls.
 

Murdoch

Electrician's Arms
I rather think that my neighbour should tip this back to the DIY chain as I'm sure that they won't want the negative publicity PLUS shouldn't they, as the main contractor accept that they hold this responsibility??
 

Mark_Burgess

Electrician's Arms
I rather think that my neighbour should tip this back to the DIY chain as I'm sure that they won't want the negative publicity PLUS shouldn't they, as the main contractor accept that they hold this responsibility??
If I were you, i'd help them all the way, call them like you say and let us know what they say, try and get their name and do a competent persons search.
 

jase

Electrician's Arms
I would do the EICR, but whatever you find should not be rectified as if there is anything wrong than this cant be proved if it is put right, LABC and trading standards in my view should be informed, as a major chain you would think that they check their installation systems ie who they employ, and even though the responsibilty may well lie with the customer, it would be easier for them to claim ignorance then the Shed.
 
P

PC Electrics

Who was the contract with for the works, and what does the contract have to say about certificates and notification.

Your client should seek advice from a solicitor. It might be argued that ykw can be sued for breach of contract as it would be reasonably expected that the complete works should include certs and notification. Without such the job is not complete and ykw have not met their obligations under the building regulations.
 

Murdoch

Electrician's Arms
I'm simply astonished that a big DIY chain would employ subcontractor(s) to do notifiable work and not ensure its done.
 

TaffyDuck

Electrician's Arms
Nit pick the whole blooming job. Pull it apart piece by piece then charge the DIY store like a wounded bull on amphetamines.
 

Marvo

Admin and gender confused
Staff member
Admin
I think setting aside who's legally responsible for what, if the customer paid the DIY store for the installation then that's who I would go after for remedy. Plus they're the one with the brand name to maintain so they're more likely to do whatever it takes to get the matter sorted out without too much dust being kicked up.
 
A

Adam W

I'd wait to hear what the installer says and what his reasons are for things like making connections inaccessible (with reference to the old cooker CCU), get as much information as possible on what he's done, and also find out what the deal is with the EIC.

I would have said that if B&Q insist on using their own subcontractors then it is their responsibility to ensure their subcontractors are up to the job, or that they sub the work out to someone who is.
If your neighbour went to B&Q and bought a kitchen off them, then the contract is with B&Q so it should be their responsibility to feed back the information down the line and get the problems rectified, even if it means using a different subcontractor - the client shouldn't be responsible for B&Q striking deals with 'the wrong' suppliers, just the same as if you buy a light fitting from them and it doesn't work you'd expect B&Q to issue you with a refund or replacement rather than having to send it back to the manufacturers in China or wherever.

If all else fails it you could just do an EICR as you say, which IMO makes the whole concept of the EIC seem kind of pointless.
 

needasparks

Electrician's Arms
Or pretend to be out when the neighbour knocks again. :) I hate it when you get dragged into things like this, more so when you know its gonna get messy.
 
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