Bathroom zoning question

[Andy78]

But isn't the point that its only a bathroom you are likely to be wet from head to foot with bare feet greatly increasing your conductivity. WCs and kitchens you may have wet hands but likely to have footware on.

I was addressing the question of the likely external influence, not the likely dress state of the user.

 

[Andy78]

I've seen hundreds of bathrooms & ensuites with a wall plate switch. They've all been placed outside the room, I wonder why? Unless you have a bathroom the size of Donald Trump's, I'd follow tradition and make those 'cheeky girls' behave themselves.

Like you say, tradition is mainly why plate switches are avoided. I'm not saying pull cords are not safer, they obviously are, just that plate switches are not necessarily unsafe. Placing a wall switch outside a bathroom is no guarantee that it is not going to be operated by someone wet and naked.

 

[Midwest]

Like you say, tradition is mainly why plate switches are avoided. I'm not saying pull cords are not safer, they obviously are, just that plate switches are not necessarily unsafe. Placing a wall switch outside a bathroom is no guarantee that it is not going to be operated by someone wet and naked.

But they've have to leave that special location to operate that switch. Realistically speaking, with a switch outside, if a person needs a light on when using the bathroom, they will turn it on before entering the bathroom and turn it off when leaving. Invariably on both occasions, bone dry and not stood naked in a pool of water.

 

[Andy78]

But they've have to leave that special location to operate that switch. Realistically speaking, with a switch outside, if a person needs a light on when using the bathroom, they will turn it on before entering the bathroom and turn it off when leaving. Invariably on both occasions, bone dry and not stood naked in a pool of water.

Like I said, you can't say that invariably someone will be dry when operating a wall switch outside a bathroom. There are variables. Like someone leaving the bathroom before drying.
It certainly limits the chances but does not exclude it.

The OP's concerns are about whether a wall switch outside the zones in a bathroom is against the regs and/or unsafe.
The correct answer to that must be that it is allowed and it is not inherently unsafe. It could be safer of course through the use of pull switches or wall switches outside the bathroom, but the choice is down to the installer as to what the likely external influences are and whether the products used are appropriate.

 

[Wilko]

Not only bathrooms ... I have been concerned seeing small W/C with hand wash sink and light switch right beside where folks may be using it repeatedly and the water path through the switch building up. And plenty still without RCD.

 

[Midwest]

The OP's concerns are about whether a wall switch outside the zones in a bathroom is against the regs and/or unsafe.
The correct answer to that must be that it is allowed and it is not inherently unsafe. It could be safer of course through the use of pull switches or wall switches outside the bathroom, but the choice is down to the installer as to what the likely external influences are and whether the products used are appropriate.

There are examples in BS7671 that gives guidance as to what is allowed or permitted. It does not give guidance as to what is safe or unsafe.

I note from section 701, there is a description of zones 0, 1 & 2 and what and cannot be installed in those zones. There is no such guidance as to what or should not be installed outside of these zones, except 'socket-outlets are prohibited within a distance of 3m horizontally from the boundary of zone 1. There is no other guidance for what can be installed outside of these zones in locations containing fixed bath (etc) or shower, other than it does not apply to switches & controls which are incorporated in fixed current-using equipment for use in that zone or to insulating pull cords of cord operated switches.

Therefore one could install a plate switch outside of zones as it does not appear to contravene any regulation within BS7671. But that ordinary plate switch could be operated by someone stood in the bath or shower.

So IMO, 'the correct answer to that must be, that 'it appears that' it is allowed, but it is inherently unsafe'.

 

[sparksburnout]

Blimey, are nervous breakdowns more common amongst electricians? I think NDG is about right here, JFDI.

 

[Andy78]

There are examples in BS7671 that gives guidance as to what is allowed or permitted. It does not give guidance as to what is safe or unsafe.

I note from section 701, there is a description of zones 0, 1 & 2 and what and cannot be installed in those zones. There is no such guidance as to what or should not be installed outside of these zones, except 'socket-outlets are prohibited within a distance of 3m horizontally from the boundary of zone 1. There is no other guidance for what can be installed outside of these zones in locations containing fixed bath (etc) or shower, other than it does not apply to switches & controls which are incorporated in fixed current-using equipment for use in that zone or to insulating pull cords of cord operated switches.

Therefore one could install a plate switch outside of zones as it does not appear to contravene any regulation within BS7671. But that ordinary plate switch could be operated by someone stood in the bath or shower.

So IMO, 'the correct answer to that must be, that 'it appears that' it is allowed, but it is inherently unsafe'.

I obviously disagree
But then it's not me you need to convince, that would be the IET.

Their guidance is:
Section 701 does not specify any additional ingress protection requirements beyond zone 2. This means that accessories, such as switches and fused connection units, can be installed beyond zone 2, subject to the requirements of Regulation 512.2 (external influences).

(Taken from IET wiring matters issue 53)

The issue of considering external influences outside of zones has already been mentioned in this thread.

Like I said, it's down to the installer to assess each installation and use their judgement.
Would I fit a plate switch in a bathroom in every instance when asked ? Nope.
Have I got switched accessories in my bathroom at home ? Yep.
Could I code accessories in a bathroom fitted in accordance with BS7671 on an EICR ? Nope.

 

[Midwest]

I obviously disagree
But then it's not me you need to convince, that would be the IET.

Their guidance is:
Section 701 does not specify any additional ingress protection requirements beyond zone 2. This means that accessories, such as switches and fused connection units, can be installed beyond zone 2, subject to the requirements of Regulation 512.2 (external influences).

(Taken from IET wiring matters issue 53)
QUOTE]

One of these then

 

[Midwest]

Flippin heck. To my above post!

One of these then

 

[Andy78]

Flippin heck. To my above post!

One of these then

View attachment 34482

If that's what you want to fit, go for it. If you do though you might want to use the option that MK do in white, and in a flush version.

 

[sparksburnout]

Flippin heck. To my above post!

One of these then

View attachment 34482

I'm going to fit one of those in my downstairs utility/shower room, the Missus us going to absolutely LOVE it.

 

[westward10]

I'm going to fit one of those in my downstairs utility/shower room, the Missus us going to absolutely LOVE it.

Fit it in the shower

 

[NDG Elecs]

In my bathroom I have got a triple pole fan iso that is directly above the bath at a height of 2.29m or thereabouts. My bathroom gets cold in the winter, really cold. So I often turn the fan on just as I am getting out of the shower. It's also pretty damn steamy as well until it clears. I have never had the slightest tingle from this switch in over 14 years. I do actually intend to relocate this particular switch at some point as I have never been that impressed with its position, and I would not fit any switch directly above the bath in this way despite it being technically outside of zone 2. But I would and will continue to fit plate switches outside of zone 2 horizontally if the customer so wishes. Traditions do change over time...

 

[westward10]

Did a Periodic a couple of months back at a commercial premises and the male/female toilets had been knocked into one to create a shower room/toilet. No rcd protection on the shower or any of the circuits, an existing hand drier point is now for a hair dryer which is in zone 2 adjacent to the shower cubicle. The hair dryer is a standard appliance which you can actually use in the cubicle.
Job had just been completed, spoke to the powers that be who went ballistic on the phone to the contractor.

 

[sparksburnout]

What, you mean unisex??? OMG.

 

[Midwest]

I think some of you are having a chuckle bearing in mind your previous posts and likes

 

[westward10]

What, you mean unisex??? OMG.

No separate male and female knocked into one. You can have a pee while the office totty is showering off off her morning bike ride sweat.

 

[westward10]

I think some of you are having a chuckle bearing in mind your previous posts and likes

My last Post is absolutely true.

 

[Midwest]

I do actually intend to relocate this particular switch at some point as I have never been that impressed with its position, and I would not fit any switch directly above the bath in this way despite it being technically outside of zone 2. QUOTE]


Why bother, it's acceptable according to the regs?